3917 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Nope, those papers were declassified years ago. Just Google CIA COCAINE OPERATIONS. George Bush Sr. Ran the entire thing before he was president.

Ya that direct connection is far from proven and the purpose was not to control a population but to fund Rebels in another country.

By that point California was never coming back from being a Blue state.

[todd]

I for one am on the side of thousands of doctors and medical professionals that have come forward in recent years with the stance the Addiction is NOT a disease.

 

More and more doctors and psychiatrists and psychologists etc. are taking a professional stance against the "Theory" that drug addiction is a disease every day.

 

And because it is not a "Disease" it can't be and should not be treated as one.

 

Drug addiction is a Habitual issue that can be overcome with first and foremost total, complete abstinence of drug use, followed by mental help and perhaps some programs such as "AA" or "NA" ...although I may add that 12 step programs while they have saved thousands and thousands of lives over the decades are not the only programs in place to help addicts remain clean and sober. Their are alternatives to 12 step programs that most people have never heard of.

 

“I truly believe no treatment will work on a person with an addiction if the patient hasn’t fully given themselves over to the fact that they have a disease that does not heal itself.”

 

 

Neuroscientist Marc Lewis, Ph.D "We know that treatment isn’t required by most to overcome addiction, so in that sense it’s not a disease. And the changes in the brain that occur because of addiction are not irreversible. We’ve been talking about neuroplasticity for decades. That is, the brain keeps on changing – due to changes in experience, self-motivated changes in behavior, as a result of practice, being in a different environment. Saying addiction is a disease suggests that the brain can no longer change…that it’s an end state. But no, it’s not end state.

 

You have substance addiction on one hand, and behavioral on the other: gambling, sex addiction, **rn addiction, a number of eating disorders, internet gaming. The cool thing is when you do brain scans, you get the same neural activation patterns in behavioral addictions as you do in substance addictions. That should be enough to knock out the disease model. If addiction is a disease, then people who spend 12 hours a day playing video games are suffering the same way people who are addicted to heroin do.

 

Take Alcohol Addiction for example...You get little things that show some genetic correlation with alcoholism, but there is no gene, or cluster of genes, that create addiction. Rather, there are personality traits that have a genetic loading, like impulsivity. So you get these cross-generational correlations that are real and do have genetic loading, but there's nothing like a particular gene or set of genes specific to addiction.

Well obviously "it's" not a "disease" but if you're desperate enough to do heroin, etc there's obviously an underlying condition or conditions that pre concedes the heroin, etc if you treat the underlying conditions you're more likely to succeed in that sense if you treat “addiction” as a “disease” you are more likely to succeed.

 

That being said:

Definition of disease

1: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, maladinfectious diseasesa rare genetic diseaseheart disease

2: a harmful development (as in a social institution) sees the city's crime as a disease

3 obsolete : trouble

 

https://www.merriam-...tionary/disease

 

 

 

 

......... Saying addiction is a disease suggests that the brain can no longer change…that it’s an end state. But no, it’s not end state. ...........

 

 

People recover from diseases everyday.

 

 

 

Edited by todd, 21 January 2018 - 01:43 PM.

[Star Dust]

 

"If you treat “addiction” as a “disease” you are more likely to succeed."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fortunately their are hundreds if not thousands of Neuroscientists and Medical professionals out there that disagree, and have been able to show their opposite stance scientifically.

 

To treat an addiction as a disease, when it is not increases the chances of the addict never overcoming the addiction.

[todd]

Fortunately their are hundreds if not thousands of Neuroscientists and Medical professionals out there that disagree, and have been able to show their opposite stance scientifically.

 

To treat an addiction as a disease, when it is not increases the chances of the addict never overcoming the addiction.

 

 

Definition of disease

1: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, maladinfectious diseasesa rare genetic diseaseheart disease

2: a harmful development (as in a social institution) . sees the city's crime as a disease

3 obsolete : trouble

 

https://www.merriam-...tionary/disease

[rmpeers]

Can't remember exactly when the shift to harm reduction approach began, but is there any evidence yet to indicate how it is working?

[Nparker]

Can't remember exactly when the shift to harm reduction approach began, but is there any evidence yet to indicate how it is working?

Or IF it has any long term benefit aside from keeping people alive only to be perpetually addicted.

[VicHockeyFan]

Can't remember exactly when the shift to harm reduction approach began, but is there any evidence yet to indicate how it is working?

I think HIV infection is down, or AIDS cases are, but we’ve made medical gains on that file too.

[VicHockeyFan]

Why would the health officer phrase things this way?

 

Provincial health officer Dr. Perry Kendall said the increase in illicit drug deaths shows “we are still in the midst of a persistent and continuing epidemic of unintentional poisoning deaths.”

 

First-responders are saving hundreds of lives a day, Kendall said, but “hundreds more are still dying, most often alone and with no one nearby to act or intervene when things go wrong.”

 

 

http://www.timescolo...-b-c-1.23160447

 

First responders are "saving hundreds of lives a day", but "hundreds are still dying".

 

Those numbers do not even remotely line up and also should not be in the same sentence.

 

It's manipulation.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 31 January 2018 - 08:56 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

At the very lowest possible number I can use for “hundreds” that statement means that without first responders we’d have 73,000+ OD deaths each year.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 31 January 2018 - 09:26 PM.

[Rob Randall]

You could make the case that every dose of Naloxone administered is capable of saving a life. That's potentially hundred per day.

 

But it's also reasonable to assume if Naloxone didn't exist and every drug dose was probably deadly, there would be a drastic drop in use and dealers would stop using Fentanyl because there would soon be no customers.

[Nparker]

Provincial health officer Dr. Perry Kendall said the increase in illicit drug deaths shows “we are still in the midst of a persistent and continuing epidemic of unintentional poisoning deaths.

I am not so sure how "unintentional" it is. With all the information that has been made public since this "epidemic" first grabbed the headlines, can there really be anyone who doesn't know about the risk of fentanyl-lace street drugs? It's like every needle has a "Mr. Yuk" face on it, but users still choose to consume the poison.

Their intention may not be to die, but they cannot possibly be ignorant of the danger.

[VicHockeyFan]

73,000 dead would sure free up some housing.

[Nparker]

73,000 dead would sure free up some housing.

Not if all 73,000 were currently living on the street.

[Daveyboy]

Can't remember exactly when the shift to harm reduction approach began, but is there any evidence yet to indicate how it is working?

Harm reduction was only supposed to be the first pillar of the "Four Pillar Approach" drug strategy.  Somehow we got the first step going at breakneck speed but the next three components have conveniently been forgotten.  As a result, it becomes a never ending crisis.

 

The following is from the City of Vancouver's website:

• Harm reduction
• Prevention
• Treatment
• Enforcement  

Successfully used in such cities as Geneva, Zurich, Frankfurt, and Sydney, this four pillars approach has resulted in a:

• Dramatic reduction in the number of drug users consuming drugs on the street
• Significant drop in overdose deaths
• Reduction in the infection rates for HIV and hepatitis.

http://vancouver.ca/...g-strategy.aspx

Edited by Daveyboy, 01 February 2018 - 06:05 AM.

[Mike K.]

Users are asking for fentanyl. Nobody in the media is talking about the demand for fentanyl being the reason why its in drugs to begin with. Users even use straight fentanyl.

 

The reason why we have so many deaths is because pfentanyl is a hot commodity among drug users. OD'ing is something that is chased by some due to the effects, believe it or not. An OD does not necessarily scare an addict, they continue to use, and the safety net created by naloxone and first responders on heightened alert means the likelihood of death from an OD is significantly lower than it was even one year ago.

[Nparker]

FYI: Ambulances have been parked outside Our Place off-and-on all morning. I guess the safe injection site hasn't been too safe today.

[A Girl is No one]

Morning after Welfare Wednesday?

[Nparker]

Morning after Welfare Wednesday?

Except that the February cheques were issued last week (January 24^th)

Edited by Nparker, 01 February 2018 - 07:52 PM.

[LJ]

Not if all 73,000 were currently living on the street.

But think how clean the streets would be.

[VicHockeyFan]

 

Innovations in harm reduction can't curb 'catastrophic' overdose crisis, say experts

B.C. leads in new approaches to drug abuse, but the body count is still rising

 

 

Both Kendall and MacPherson say it's virtually impossible to imagine a scenario where harm reduction services are scaled up to the point that everyone could have access — and argue that decriminalization is the only long term approach that will save lives.

 

"If it was toxic food, the government would replace the food, if it was toxic water, they'd truck in water," said MacPherson.

 

"Unfortunately, for drug policy, a lot of people have to die before we get the courage to think of new more radical approaches."

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...4509136?cmp=rss

 

Except if it was food or water, we would not say "be careful, or don't use water or the food alone" we'd tell you to STOP USING IT immediately.

Edited by VicHockeyFan, 03 February 2018 - 01:44 PM.