830 replies to this topic

[intheknow]

I mean, the builder should always dictate what they will or will not build, no? Unless the city is paying for the building, it's not up to them beyond zoning (and the provincial building codes).

Let the planners decide land use, and the architects design buildings.

That's not how it works. The local government Act gives authority to municipalities to protect the form and character value of special areas.  "A development permit may include requirements respecting the character of the development, including landscaping, and the siting, form, exterior design and finish of buildings and other structures"

That's how cities protect themselves from a race to bottom. 

[m3m]

I personally can't wait for this Telus building to get built so it will block my view of the Aria.  It's ugly.  We do not need any more buildings with mermaid sculptures or any more music-themed condos.

 

Well, hate is a strong word- but what is most dislikeable about this project is that it's basically just a big corporation coming to small town trying to develop its identity and dictating to said town what they will and will not do. Add to that, all the eagerness for change that comes from a populace starved of culturally interesting things- and it just makes you sad that there isn't a bit more collective ambition.

 

In what world is Victoria a small town?

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Edited by m3m, 10 December 2021 - 12:44 PM.

[intheknow]

I personally can't wait for this Telus building to get built so it will block my view of the Aria.  It's ugly.  We do not need any more buildings with mermaid sculptures or any more music-themed condos.

 

 

In what world is Victoria a small town?

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Our world? The only world? Victoria is a backwater man....no? That's why people like this building no?

[Mattjvd]

That's not how it works. The local government Act gives authority to municipalities to protect the form and character value of special areas. "A development permit may include requirements respecting the character of the development, including landscaping, and the siting, form, exterior design and finish of buildings and other structures"
That's how cities protect themselves from a race to bottom.

I think the last line is our primary dissagreement. I like the development and think of it as a race to the top, not bottom.

And yes (with regards to the local governence act), but the developer can say that doesn't work and not build. In my opinion (and I assume this is where our views diverge again): Is that this costly (carrying costs, moving the return father into the future, discounting it further) back-and forth often leads to an increased price for the end user which outweighs the potential character or aestetic gains.

Edited by Mattjvd, 10 December 2021 - 02:05 PM.

[intheknow]

I think the last line is our primary dissagreement. I like the development and think of it as a race to the top, not bottom.

 I agree- that is where there is departure. I'd also agree that Victoria is desperate for leading architecture- architecture that departs from mimicking or Dysneyfying heritage  interpretations and instead looks forward- with change. But this is not that building. All glass buildings are a thing of the past (emerging code and climate change is ensuring that). Corporate vanity projects are a thing of the past, (progressive corporations understand all pillars of sustainability). And contextually deaf buildings are a thing of the past- (buildings that import an identity rather than foster and work within a place's identity). Preferencing corporate objectives over local- is always a race to the bottom in my opinion. Take a look at any of Telus's buildings across Canada- all the same- vapid, soulless- corporate branding.  

Edited by intheknow, 10 December 2021 - 02:10 PM.

[Mattjvd]

I agree- that is where there is departure. I'd also agree that Victoria is desperate for leading architecture- architecture that departs from mimicking or Dysneyfying heritage interpretations and instead looks forward- with change. But this is not that building. All glass buildings are a thing of the past (emerging code and climate change is ensuring that). Corporate vanity projects are a thing of the past, (progressive corporations understand all pillars of sustainability). And contextually deaf buildings are a thing of the past- (buildings that import an identity rather than foster and work within a place's identity). Preferencing corporate objectives over local- is always a race to the bottom in my opinion. Take a look at any of Telus's buildings across Canada- all the same- vapid, soulless- corporate branding.

I don't mind the glazed exterior of some buildings. I would agree that if the skyline was dominated by them it would be tiresome, but I think they're a neat piece of the arcitectual mix. I would imagine they will become synomous with the 2000-2020 (2025?) era and be an interesting bit of city history going forward. To each their own though.

[m3m]

How many fully glass-clad buildings do we currently have? Like 4?

[REO-eh!]

After a lengthy public hearing council has postponed its decision on the project until next week. Nearly 50 people spoke in favour, and about half that spoke against.

 

Most of those speaking in favour in the videos were downtown coffee shop/restaurant/bar owners/managers that would support any downtown development that might bring them a few more customers regardless of the building architecture, size, bylaw amendments, or permit variances. Hardly a noteworthy endorsement.

[Nparker]

Most of those speaking in favour in the videos were downtown coffee shop/restaurant/bar owners/managers that would support any downtown development that might bring them a few more customers...

Seriously? This is your argument against this proposal? That it would help local businesses? Oh Victoria what have you become? 

[amor de cosmos]

i think the glass is supposed to reflect the sky which would make it stand out less. you can see it more-or-less matches the sky in the rendering.

[spanky123]

That was so long ago, that not a single City of Victoria resident can even remember what the EOI process was about.

 

It is only ever an issue if someone complains. Would be interesting though if a proponent offers more than $8.1M with the density the City now seems prepared to approve.

[Victoria Watcher]

Councillors heard from neighbours who opposed the project, arguing the building would be too big and would overwhelm the area.

 

Ian Sutherland, chair of the Downtown Victoria Residents Association land use committee, said in an interview neighbours are “unambiguously opposed.” About 82 per cent of the 128 people who provided feedback through the city’s development tracker did not want to see the project go forward. Neighbouring buildings are largely residential or hotels, he said.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...e-built-4854550

[Mike K.]

Oh geez, eh? This is such a critical investment into the downtown core, and we are working to kill it? I just don’t understand how we can build up the downtown economy, but treat it like a suburban neighbourhood at the same time.

[Nparker]

...Ian Sutherland, chair of the Downtown Victoria Residents Association land use committee, said in an interview neighbours are “unambiguously opposed.” About 82 per cent of the 128 people who provided feedback through the city’s development tracker did not want to see the project go forward. Neighbouring buildings are largely residential or hotels, he said.

Unlike the incredibly short, underwhelming, nearby residential buildings, Astoria, Belvedere and Aria that have existed in the area for at least a century or more. How do you spell hypocrisy: DRA.

[spanky123]

Ms. Madoff is incorrect, the TELUS involvement is to consolidate 5 offices around Victoria, Saanich, and Central Saanich into one downtown office which itself is already a good thing. The design and the space they are holding is to facilitate the growth of the Victoria based team to 450 employees. It’s in the application package, always has been…

 

Help me with the math here. I understand the entire floor space of the building will be about 155K sq ft. Telus is occupying 2 of the floors which I guesstimate to be about 50K sq ft. Allowing space for common areas and non-working space that would make it an extremely tight fit for 450 staff. 

 

If growth in employment is such a key part of the value of this proposal then I would request that council add it to the terms of the agreement with Telus. In say 3 years Telus will have 450 people working from their offices and if they don't then the purchase price of the building will increase to offset the loss in value of the development to the downtown core!

 

Sorry to be a skeptic here but one only has to look to Microsoft, Disney, Amazon, West, Gamehouse, Daiten, etc, etc for examples of tech companies who promised expansion and jobs in Victoria only to fall very far short of what they claimed.

Edited by spanky123, 11 December 2021 - 01:32 PM.

[Mike K.]

Telus will likely occupy additional floor plates, as they grow their local workforce.

I believe the total square footage is just over 140k?

[aastra]

 

...neighbours are “unambiguously opposed.”

Neighbouring buildings are largely residential or hotels, he said.

 

Remember all the way back to a few years ago, when those new residential buildings were the scourge that would surely ruin the neighbourhood?

[Mike K.]

The warnings were there from the moment they filled in James Bay.

[Casual Kev]

"Overwhelming" opposition to an office tower in a business district that is smaller than adjacent hotels and residential buildings... how can you even treat the complaints seriously lol

[intheknow]

Oh geez, eh? This is such a critical investment into the downtown core, and we are working to kill it? I just don’t understand how we can build up the downtown economy, but treat it like a suburban neighbourhood at the same time.

There seems to be a lot of consternation about the criticism of this proposal as an attempt to kill it. I think that is far from the aim. Really, it's just more about Telus being a bit more compatible with the values of Victoria, instead of thrusting their image and needs upon us. Its like yes we want to date this strong and powerful ally, we want all the things they promise, but at the very least they could woo us a little. At least pretend to be interested in us a bit, demonstrate some shared values before we bend over and just take it. Weren't we all taught to only to invite people who will be nice to us into our lives? This proposal would be like dating the Patrick Bateman of American psycho.