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Election Reform / Proportional Representation - BC 2018 Referendum


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#21 Mike K.

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:59 PM

Isn’t the fact that they were in power for 15 years despite all of the controversies proof that this election was a protest against them? In other words, they were voted out, not the NDP/Greens voted in?
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#22 jonny

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 10:49 AM

This supposed massive hole they dug resulted in them winning the popular vote.

Look, the Liberals still won the popular vote despite having an incredibly unpopular leader. Horgan is very moderate by Marxist NDP standards. We'll see how long that lasts, but I bet this victory emboldens the extreme wings of the NDP.
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#23 rmpeers

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 07:52 PM

This supposed massive hole they dug resulted in them winning the popular vote.

Look, the Liberals still won the popular vote despite having an incredibly unpopular leader. Horgan is very moderate by Marxist NDP standards. We'll see how long that lasts, but I bet this victory emboldens the extreme wings of the NDP.

Either way, will be very interesting to watch how things unfold, not least how the new Lib leader positions them and how well the new premier holds to the more moderate position. It's never dull, that for sure. :)

Edited by rmpeers, 26 November 2017 - 07:53 PM.

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#24 jonny

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 08:49 AM

Either way, will be very interesting to watch how things unfold, not least how the new Lib leader positions them and how well the new premier holds to the more moderate position. It's never dull, that for sure. :)

 

Agreed. 

 

It'll be interesting to follow, especially with how quickly Trudeau & Co. flip flopped on their alleged dreams of electoral reform. 


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#25 jonny

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:35 AM

My point is that if you change the game, you inevitably change the way the players play the game. New teams may engage in an expanded game (all systems of PR inevitably expand the game). Fringe parties have almost no power in our current system. In a PR system, they could.   

 

Changing the way we elect our representation, I think, inevitably will lead to a departure from our classical binary choice. My prediction is that fringe groups will feel emboldened to set-up fringe parties, and fringe voters will feel emboldened to vote for fringe parties who will stand a better chance of winning in certain ridings.



#26 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:55 AM

Does anybody think it's very conceivable that if we go to PR we might see parties like a Vancouver Island First party etc.?  Regional parties.  Right now Delta would vote for a pro-new-bridge/tunnel party.  Or ethnic parties?  42 percent of Metro Vancouver is a visible minority.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 27 November 2017 - 12:01 PM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#27 RFS

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 11:57 AM

Does anybody think it's very conceivable that if we go to PR we might see parties like a Vancouver Island First party etc.? Regional parties. Or ethnic parties?


Interior/northern separatist party
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#28 jonny

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:05 PM

Does anybody think it's very conceivable that if we go to PR we might see parties like a Vancouver Island First party etc.?  Regional parties.  Right now Delta would vote for a pro-new-bridge/tunnel party.  Or ethnic parties?  42 percent of Metro Vancouver is a visible minority.

 

Possibly. 

 

In the shorter term, I think it's more likely we see a "conservative" party and a hard left East Van party. Eventually, eastern BC may become disillusioned and want to become a part of Alberta. 


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#29 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

Last time I was in Dawson Creek they pretty much considered themselves Albertans.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#30 jonny

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:07 PM

They pretty much are. How many thousands of square kilometers are in the mountain time zone, anyway. 



#31 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:10 PM

They pretty much are. How many thousands of square kilometers are in the mountain time zone, anyway. 

 

Well, they are not technically in the Mountain Time Zone, they just don't change their clocks so they become in sync with it for half the year.


<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#32 shoeflack

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:41 PM

Well, they are not technically in the Mountain Time Zone, they just don't change their clocks so they become in sync with it for half the year.

 

It's actually the reverse. They are in the Mountain Time Zone but don't observe daylight savings time. They are on Mountain Standard Time year round (so Pacific Daylight Time in spring/summer, Mountain Standard Time fall/winter).

 

Fort Nelson and Creston join the whole of the Peace River Regional District in not observing DST, while sitting in the Mountain Time Zone.


Edited by shoeflack, 27 November 2017 - 12:46 PM.


#33 rjag

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 12:43 PM

This was on the FB page of the Independent Contractors today....no preconceived opinion happening!!!

 

 

The NDP-Green fix is in: they want proportional representation. Why? For the Greens, it means more seats and more money. For the NDP, it means more chances to govern - even if it means throwing their platform and principles aside to do sweetheart deals with the Greens.

But prop rep will crush northern, Interior and Fraser Valley representation (of course, the Greens and NDP can't win there, so they're okay with that). It means concentrating power in Vancouver and Surrey and Victoria, leaving out the rest of the province.

Over the coming months, you'll hear lots of pie-in-the-sky, doe-eyed arguments for prop rep, with nonsensical claims that it makes every vote count and political parties will hold hands and sing campfire songs and everyone will get along.

Make no mistake.

These people are wolves in sheep's clothing: they want to tilt the balance of power to their side and their neighbourhood - and away from any British Columbian who disagrees with their views.

We're going to fight this tooth and nail? Why? Because all of B.C. deserves to be heard. Because prop rep will make getting to yes on resource projects impossible, and because stable governments keep people working and prospering.



#34 lanforod

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

2 questions on ballot.

 

This is utterly underwhelming to me. Most folks will be majorly confused by the 3 PR options.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-eby-1.4683919 


Edited by lanforod, 30 May 2018 - 10:41 AM.

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#35 Nparker

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:45 AM

...Most folks will be majorly confused by the 3 PR options...

But isn't this the same every time PR has come up for public discourse? Make the referendum question(s) so confusing that the average voter gives up and the status quo can be maintained. 



#36 lanforod

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:46 AM

But isn't this the same every time PR has come up for public discourse? Make the referendum question(s) so confusing that the average voter gives up and the status quo can be maintained. 

Perhaps yes.

 

Why don't they have an option for STV province wide? Whats with the hybrid option, is there an issue with using STV in rural areas?



#37 spanky123

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 04:26 PM

2 questions on ballot.

 

This is utterly underwhelming to me. Most folks will be majorly confused by the 3 PR options.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-eby-1.4683919 

 

By design. Horgan doesn't want PR now that he is in power. He is only playing the game so that Weaver doesn't toss him out.

 

The questions are designed to ensure that the proposal will fail. Does anyone really think that 50%+ of voters will vote for a change in voting without certainty as to what that change will be?


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#38 Nparker

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 04:44 PM

...Horgan doesn't want PR now that he is in power...

Just like every other politician who made similar promises before coming to power; and we the "sheeple" just role over and play dead.


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#39 lanforod

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 05:37 PM

Only positive thing I can think of is the proposal to have a 5% minimum popular vote requirement to get seats. That helps keep out the communist, rhino and fascist parties.
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#40 Cats4Hire

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 06:08 PM

Why would Horgan not win PR? I doubt he's forgotten that he didn't actually win and is only in power because he teamed up with another party, something very common with PR. I think it's just the people who write these things are very into politics and have been for a long time and forget not everyone is into it and knows all the systems and little blurbs don't help. 



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