639 replies to this topic

[Bernard]

Hey Bernard, heres a scenario I'm unsure of. 

Lets use Andrew Weaver as the example with MMP....lets say that he doesnt retain his seat In OB GordonHead and comes in 2nd place but the Party pulls 15% of the popular provincial vote.....If its open list can he be on that as well and capture a floating seat? How does that work? 

 

If so, then he could simply bump any green out to retain his new job

It depends on a bunch of factors.   

Can direct candidates also be list candidates?  I some MMP models this is not an option.

If it is an open list he has to finish high enough on the list to win a seat and that depends on getting enough of the public to choose him high up among their choices from the Greens.

He could not bump any candidates that finished ahead of him.

Some MMP models only allow for a single vote and in the direct seats the "best" losers for the parties are the ones that would be elected.   This form of MMP starts to look a bit like Dual Member Proportional 

 

Open lists would mean a very large ballot.   You would have the names of all the candidates for each of the parties on the ballot - I would estimate that to be something like 200 to 250 names.   The names would be grouped by party.   If it is done fairly the names under each party would be random.    The public would then have to number their candidates from their party in order of their preference.   Open List voting can be hand counted but it takes a very long time and would most likely lead to computer read counting of the ballots.

[rjag]

Thanks Bernard...and its confusing data like that that needs to be sorted out in advance not after the fact by the very folks that stand to benefit.

[Bernard]

Thanks Bernard...and its confusing data like that that needs to be sorted out in advance not after the fact by the very folks that stand to benefit.

That is one of the major reasons I had to vote no, MLAs are in a conflict when it comes to this and should have no role in designing any part of the system.    That was the beauty of the Citizens Assembly in 2004.

 

They did try to create an MMP model in 2004 but could not create a model that met the core values the public was looking for in an electoral system. 

[rjag]

33% returned as of this morning. My money is it wont reach 38%.

 

Also of note, I had a look at the low turnout areas and most are NDP ridings, not all but quite a few

[lanforod]

They extended it a week. I predicted >35%

[rjag]

The Green party is offering to send a volunteer to your home to collect your ballot and deliver it to elections bc

 

https://www.bcgreens...s.ca/locations 

[LJ]

The Green party is offering to send a volunteer to your home to collect your ballot and deliver it to elections bc

 

https://www.bcgreens...s.ca/locations 

If you told them you voted "no" do you think they would still come and pick it up?

[spanky123]

If you told them you voted "no" do you think they would still come and pick it up?

 

Sure they would. The question is whether it would ever make it to the elections BC office!

[LJ]

How about if they got rid of the party system and everybody was an independent. You vote for the person in your riding that most aligns with your views. The people elected in each riding then select two or three of the elected candidates to become leader and they vote on it. Your MLA is not beholden to any party philosophy, they just represent the constituents. This could reduce government waste on useless PR and pet projects and if you wanted something to get passed you would have to convince enough of your fellow MLA's that it was a worthy project.

[rjag]

http://theorca.ca/vi...od/upside-down/

 

 

A cautionary tale about Proportional Representation in New Zealand – from a New Zealander

There is a myth promulgated by those in favor of proportional representation that extremist, one issue or populist parties will not rise in British Columbia because, well because we are British Columbians, and we will fly against the world trend. I agree this is a special place to live. I was born and grew up in New Zealand, but have lived in B.C. a very long time.

I admire the collective faith here, but doubt its prediction.

 

[lanforod]

They extended it a week. I predicted >35%

Per the TC, return is at or over 37% now.

[Mike K.]

Yup, 37% returned, 31% counted. That’s still the figure from Friday morning.

I received a parcel via Canada Post today so they’re definitely busy making sure people get their parcels and letters. Elections BC made the right move to extend the deadline but you’re no longer likely to get it processed by mail and need to deliver it in person to local BCE offices.

[vortoozo]

We're now up to 39%.

[spanky123]

How about if they got rid of the party system and everybody was an independent. You vote for the person in your riding that most aligns with your views. The people elected in each riding then select two or three of the elected candidates to become leader and they vote on it. Your MLA is not beholden to any party philosophy, they just represent the constituents. This could reduce government waste on useless PR and pet projects and if you wanted something to get passed you would have to convince enough of your fellow MLA's that it was a worthy project.

 

Our political system relies on parties, their funding capabilities and their organizing networks in order to be viable.

[spanky123]

 

http://theorca.ca/vi...od/upside-down/

 

 

 

 

I would argue the opposite and that because BC is BC we will have a 100 special interest parties promoting everything from Government funded coke, to returning all land back to FN, to establishing a marxist system of Government, to giving voting rights to orcas!

[vortoozo]

Still at 39% as of this morning.

Wilkinson was asked at the press conference after the referendum debate what number he believed would legitimize the results, and he indicated 40%. Good chance we'll get there.

Although the results are binding, if PR passes, he won't be able to complain that it's a turnout issue.

[Bernard]

Still at 39% as of this morning.

Wilkinson was asked at the press conference after the referendum debate what number he believed would legitimize the results, and he indicated 40%. Good chance we'll get there.

Although the results are binding, if PR passes, he won't be able to complain that it's a turnout issue.

The results are not binding, there is no mechanism within the BC Constitution to make any sort of referendum binding on the Legislature.    It is the very fact that the referendum is not legally binding that causes the discussion about turnout.

[vortoozo]

Per ElectionsBC, the results are binding:

https://twitter.com/...653616405794816

 

See also page 57:

 

The Electoral Reform Referendum 2018 Act requires that the result of the referendum is binding on government if a majority of votes cast are in favour of the same voting system . A question with more than two options requires a counting method that will result in one system receiving more than 50% support – preferential voting using the Alternative Vote method provides this .

[Bernard]

Section 9 of the Electoral Reform Referendum 2018 Act says it is binding except for all it says that if the referendum passes "the government must take steps that the government considers necessary or advisable to implement the result of the referendum, including introducing the legislation needed to implement the proportional representation voting system in sufficient time for that voting system to be in place for a general election called on or after July 1, 2021. "

 

but this was written by the current government and is not enforceable, in fact, runs counter to the how our parliamentary system works.   The wording in the act is there so that people can say it is binding even when legally it is not.  This section should never have been in the law and I am 99% certain the legal advice to the government was that this section should not be part of the law.

[LeoVictoria]

We're now up to 39%.

 

Well so much for the low turnout argument.