11779 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

We need to learn to manage that growth somehow so that our debt doesn't climb as tall as our towers.

Taxpayers need to understand exactly how the net new positions at City Hall truly benefit us - beyond the mayor's say so. Does it really take 15 new positions to manage current growth?

 

Two of the other jobs are for bylaw officers to enforce the city’s short-term rental bylaw, and they will be paid with money from short-term rental fees...

If an enforcement program is so reliant on the revenue from that bylaw, can it really be considered beneficial? In the case of the short-term rental bylaw, is there hard evidence to prove it has shown effective results for its operational cost?

Are "free" youth bus passes making a quantifiable difference and worth the cost of the program?

At what point can the CoV taxpayer no longer afford the costs of social engineering?

[Tom Braybrook]

Yet, according to Ben the sap that volunteered to pay those taxes is the problem?  This is where I don't get why council seems so intent to disparage those contributing the most to their coffers, so that those who either cannot contribute or cannot contribute much don't have to.  Relative to income, it would be interesting to know how regressive/progressive they are?  

...property tax is always regressive, inasmuch as it bears no relation to income...

 

as an example, a senior living on fixed income sees property values in their neighbourhood rise significantly due to gentrification and as a result their assessment goes up and their share of the tax pie goes up much faster than inflation...unfortunately their income does not and they cannot eat equity

 

in fact anyone with a normal income keeping pace with inflation will, depending on their neighbourhood, see a jump in property tax due to assessment changes far greater than inflation

 

this is why the property tax base is unsuited for social expenses, and is best applied to infrastructure costs, not social welfare projects that should properly be funded from a progressive tax e.g. income tax - which are provincial and federal

 

however, what does a city do when upper tier governments underfund what should be their responsibilities? of necessity they may take on those responsibilities that are outside of their mandate and once started down that road... slippery slope...

[Victoria Watcher]

...property tax is always regressive, inasmuch as it bears no relation to income...

 

as an example, a senior living on fixed income sees property values in their neighbourhood rise significantly due to gentrification and as a result their assessment goes up and their share of the tax pie goes up much faster than inflation...unfortunately their income does not and they cannot eat equity

 

that's a huge fallacy.  #1 they can eat equity if they use the right financial tool.  secondly they can defer 100% of their property taxes.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 February 2020 - 11:30 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

in fact anyone with a normal income keeping pace with inflation will, depending on their neighbourhood, see a jump in property tax due to assessment changes far greater than inflation

 

 

 

as we've gone over here before your assessment rise or fall - alone - has no effect on your property tax bill.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 February 2020 - 11:36 AM.

[Nparker]

 

what does a city do when upper tier governments underfund what should be their responsibilities? of necessity they may take on those responsibilities that are outside of their mandate and once started down that road... slippery slope...

I'd say much of the outside-of-mandate spending we see locally is more the result of ideology than of underfunding by other levels of government.

[Nparker]

 

secondly they can defer 100% of their property taxes.

Assuming I can afford to live to 65, this is my plan. After this I'll spend the entire value of my estate before I die so there is nothing left to pay the tax bill when I am gone. 

Edited by Nparker, 15 February 2020 - 12:40 PM.

[Tom Braybrook]

that's a huge fallacy.  #1 they can eat equity if they use the right financial tool.  secondly they can defer 100% of their property taxes.

...i guess this is true...they could reverse mortgage, or even get a line of credit and simply pay interest until it is all gone...the question is should they be FORCED to do this because a regressive tax is being used to fund progressive services/values that have nothing to do with municipal services...

 

...and they can defer their prop tax if they are of a certain age and meet certain criteria ( https://www2.gov.bc....regular-program )... but again they are, in effect,  being FORCED to borrow against equity

Edited by tommy, 15 February 2020 - 12:45 PM.

[Tom Braybrook]

as we've gone over here before your assessment rise or fall - alone - has no effect on your property tax bill.

...and as we have gone over before, changes in assessment do affect your tax burden if your rise is greater/lower than the average change in the city...

[Victoria Watcher]

...i guess this is true...they could reverse mortgage, or even get a line of credit and simply pay interest until it is all gone...the question is should they be FORCED to do this because a regressive tax is being used to fun progressive services/values that have nothing to do with municipal services...

 

...and they can defer their prop tax if they are of a certain age and meet certain criteria ( https://www2.gov.bc....regular-program )... but again they are, in effect,  being FORCED to borrow against equity

 

nobody is forcing them to do any of this.  but you have to pay your property taxes.  others find a way to do it i'm not sure why seniors can't.  they lived 60 or 65 years and hopefully understood them.

 

another option is of course downsizing.  another option is the kids that are due to inherit the house pay the property taxes.

 

you might say "why should they be forced to sell their home!!!?!!" but they should understand that home ownership comes with property tax obligations.  has been that way for a very very long time.  

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 15 February 2020 - 12:47 PM.

[rmpeers]

Yet, according to Ben the sap that volunteered to pay those taxes is the problem? This is where I don't get why council seems so intent to disparage those contributing the most to their coffers, so that those who either cannot contribute or cannot contribute much don't have to. Relative to income, it would be interesting to know how regressive/progressive they are?

I am increasingly of the mind they want to punish them in some way. The mentality is that of student government.

[Daveyboy]

Assuming I can afford to live to 65, this is my plan. After this I'll spend the entire value of my estate before I die so there is nothing left to pay the tax bill when I am gone. 

Hey, you only have to make it to 55 to defer your property taxes in BC

 

https://www2.gov.bc....tax/defer-taxes

[UDeMan]

deferring the property tax puts a lien on your house.  some people don't like having liens on their property for any reason.

 

I noticed that in Saanich the garbage, recyling is now on the utility bill.  In the past it was on the property tax bill and could be deferred.  Can't defer your municipal utility bill, which has increased lots recently with the sewage treatment charges.

[Tom Braybrook]

Hey, you only have to make it to 55 to defer your property taxes in BC

 

https://www2.gov.bc....tax/defer-taxes

interest is currently 1.95%....ENB dividend is close to 6%, RY is close to 4%, BNS  close to 5%...

 

or you could take a flyer on HS as suggested elsewhere in the forums 

[Tom Braybrook]

nobody is forcing them to do any of this.  but you have to pay your property taxes.  others find a way to do it i'm not sure why seniors can't.  they lived 60 or 65 years and hopefully understood them.

 

another option is of course downsizing.  another option is the kids that are due to inherit the house pay the property taxes.

 

you might say "why should they be forced to sell their home!!!?!!" but they should understand that home ownership comes with property tax obligations.  has been that way for a very very long time.  

...as this discussion started out as a conversation about the regressive nature of property tax....and i have spent far too much time in the past debating the serious unfairness of market value assessment - especially as it relates to seniors on fixed income - i am just going to post this...

 

https://www.investop...gressivetax.asp

[Victoria Watcher]

deferring the property tax puts a lien on your house. some people don't like having liens on their property for any reason.

Is.

then pay your taxes. sorry mankind built this system. it’s not perfect but every single homeowner manages.

[Awaiting Juno]

then pay your taxes. sorry mankind built this system. it’s not perfect but every single homeowner manages.

 

And every single VanLifer freeloads.

[aastra]

 

“We hired people in the planning department thinking the building boom we’re seeing would slow down at some point,” she said. “But for the last four years it hasn’t, and all indications we have is that it’s going to continue at least for a couple of more years. So those positions have just been made permanent.”

 

Based on the past 160 years of evidence, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the ongoing development and redevelopment of the city is not a short-term fad.

[Kungsberg]

I can't tell whether this has been up for a while, or someone went through their printer cartridge this weekend printing these up.

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[Bernard]

I walk by there most weekdays and I do not remember seeing it before

[Victoria Watcher]

But I couldn’t believe my ears when his interview was sent to me Sunday night.

 

It’s akin to what far-left Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps did in 2017 when she suggested that residents — including seniors — billet the homeless in a spare room just like Victoria did during the Second World War with workers who’d come to the city.

 

That idea quickly fell by the wayside when Helps told the National Post she couldn’t do it herself because her home contains confidential material.

 

This is even wackier considering Tory is proposing that seniors actually renovate or sever their homes to create a separate suite.

 

https://torontosun.c...for-extra-bucks

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 February 2020 - 04:42 AM.