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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#8641 marks_28

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 03:29 PM

Indeed family housing may evaporate entirely - in its stead, blocks upon blocks of townhouses with small patches for yards (a real travesty when public parks are not protected as safe spaces for everyone's use), and still price tags of $700,000 or better.

 

Is that bad though? We need to encourage densification in the city than continue urban sprawl out to the west shore and other suburbs. I'd rather have a $700k townhome near to town that I can afford vs a $1.5mm SFH that I cannot. SFHs, at least in city cores are a terrible use of space, and I think townhomes should be the norm rather than being seen as tearing Victoria to shreds. Sure, many of us grew up in them, and still live in them now. It's what we're used to. Although when you look at cities worldwide, the idea of a SFH is a bit of an outlier outside North America.



#8642 Sparky

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 03:48 PM

^ Yes but we live in North America.
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#8643 Mike K.

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 03:57 PM

Is that bad though? We need to encourage densification in the city than continue urban sprawl out to the west shore and other suburbs. I'd rather have a $700k townhome near to town that I can afford vs a $1.5mm SFH that I cannot. SFHs, at least in city cores are a terrible use of space, and I think townhomes should be the norm rather than being seen as tearing Victoria to shreds. Sure, many of us grew up in them, and still live in them now. It's what we're used to. Although when you look at cities worldwide, the idea of a SFH is a bit of an outlier outside North America.

An urban area with the tiny urban footprint that is Greater Victoria is an outlier, too. Another outlier is we are a pin point among the vastness of Vancouver Island. What’s the CRD in its absolute entirety, legions of forest and all? 600sq km? And the Island is what, 31,000 sq km? And the urban area of the CRD, from Sooke to Sidney is about 150sq km, including the expanse of the Highlands, Metchosin, Sooke and all the parklands.

Victorians think Langford is the sticks. But it’s very much within the distance of the “central core” of the majority of western cities.

In fact, as the bird flies, downtown Langford to downtown Victoria is the same distance as the Vegas Strip, from Mandalay Bay to Freemont. Nobody looks at that distance and thinks, “my gosh, I can’t believe how far away Mandalay Bay is from Freemont Street.” Victorians, though, think of Langford as though it’s the distance from downtown Vancouver to Langley.
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#8644 rmpeers

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 04:19 PM

Is that bad though? We need to encourage densification in the city than continue urban sprawl out to the west shore and other suburbs. I'd rather have a $700k townhome near to town that I can afford vs a $1.5mm SFH that I cannot. SFHs, at least in city cores are a terrible use of space, and I think townhomes should be the norm rather than being seen as tearing Victoria to shreds. Sure, many of us grew up in them, and still live in them now. It's what we're used to. Although when you look at cities worldwide, the idea of a SFH is a bit of an outlier outside North America.


Rather than relentlessly pushing to densify Victoria, perhaps we can just accept the fact that not everyone gets to live exactly where they want.
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#8645 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 06:47 PM

Give high marks to Victoria council

 

Re: “No, Victoria council is not the devil incarnate,” commentary, April 4.

 

I appreciate Trevor Hancock’s energetic defence of the initiatives taken by Victoria city council to improve the quality of urban living in Victoria.

 

As Hancock noted, Mayor Lisa Helps and the other members of council, particularly the most outspokenly progressive, received a strong public mandate at the last election to pursue their reform agenda.

 

The Times Colonist comment pages have mainly served as a forum for the city’s conservative and mostly privileged residents to counter even the most modest efforts to improve the urban environment and the living conditions of the homeless, the working poor and historically marginalized minority communities.

 

Council’s efforts have necessarily been modest, given the lack of resources and powers available to effect meaningful change at the municipal level.

 

But it gets high marks for trying to move in this direction, and I’m hoping it will continue to enjoy widespread public support despite the best efforts of its opponents to generate a backlash against it.

 

Marvin Gandall
Victoria

 

https://www.timescol...-all-1.24304091


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 April 2021 - 06:47 PM.


#8646 LJ

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 07:18 PM

Is that bad though? We need to encourage densification in the city than continue urban sprawl out to the west shore and other suburbs. I'd rather have a $700k townhome near to town that I can afford vs a $1.5mm SFH that I cannot. SFHs, at least in city cores are a terrible use of space, and I think townhomes should be the norm rather than being seen as tearing Victoria to shreds. Sure, many of us grew up in them, and still live in them now. It's what we're used to. Although when you look at cities worldwide, the idea of a SFH is a bit of an outlier outside North America.

That's where the disconnect is, you want a $700,000 townhome that you can afford, to many others that price is double what they can afford, for others 5 times what they can afford. All the housing stock in Victoria is affordable, every house that goes for sale at any price gets bought.

In order to provide "affordable" housing to those who can't afford a $200,000 home we would need to build View Towers over and over. You either accept that as a consequence or you accept the fact that not every wage earner can afford to live here.


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#8647 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 07:58 PM

When you turn Victoria into everywhere else, you lose Victoria and what made it special and unique. Yes people love to visit Copenhagen and Denmark, but they also love to visit Victoria, or at least they used to.


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#8648 A Girl is No one

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 08:13 PM

Give high marks to Victoria council

Re: “No, Victoria council is not the devil incarnate,” commentary, April 4.


I appreciate Trevor Hancock’s energetic defence of the initiatives taken by Victoria city council to improve the quality of urban living in Victoria.


As Hancock noted, Mayor Lisa Helps and the other members of council, particularly the most outspokenly progressive, received a strong public mandate at the last election to pursue their reform agenda.


The Times Colonist comment pages have mainly served as a forum for the city’s conservative and mostly privileged residents to counter even the most modest efforts to improve the urban environment and the living conditions of the homeless, the working poor and historically marginalized minority communities.


Council’s efforts have necessarily been modest, given the lack of resources and powers available to effect meaningful change at the municipal level.


But it gets high marks for trying to move in this direction, and I’m hoping it will continue to enjoy widespread public support despite the best efforts of its opponents to generate a backlash against it.


Marvin Gandall
Victoria


https://www.timescol...-all-1.24304091

That’s Marvin Gandall of the Socialist Project. I wonder why they never add these titles to their opinion pieces..
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#8649 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 08:23 PM

Back when I was in my early 20's, people who didn't like Victoria and wanted to be somewhere bigger, with more condos and more things downtown, simply moved to those other places for a few years, and when they realized that here was better for whatever reason, came back - or alternatively didn't and made somewhere else home. Now - people come here wanting it to be something else, and rather than accept it and the slow evolution, they'll change it in the space of a decade and then wonder why people are upset that the place that was a little "too perfect" no longer exists.


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#8650 tommy

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Posted 07 April 2021 - 10:33 PM

An urban area with the tiny urban footprint that is Greater Victoria is an outlier, too. Another outlier is we are a pin point among the vastness of Vancouver Island. What’s the CRD in its absolute entirety, legions of forest and all? 600sq km? And the Island is what, 31,000 sq km? And the urban area of the CRD, from Sooke to Sidney is about 150sq km, including the expanse of the Highlands, Metchosin, Sooke and all the parklands.

Victorians think Langford is the sticks. But it’s very much within the distance of the “central core” of the majority of western cities.

In fact, as the bird flies, downtown Langford to downtown Victoria is the same distance as the Vegas Strip, from Mandalay Bay to Freemont. Nobody looks at that distance and thinks, “my gosh, I can’t believe how far away Mandalay Bay is from Freemont Street.” Victorians, though, think of Langford as though it’s the distance from downtown Vancouver to Langley.

back in nagara we thought nothing of driving 20km to access a large grocery store, or a restaurant, or the tennis club, etc.  ...the price we paid for living where we wanted


Edited by tommy, 07 April 2021 - 10:34 PM.

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#8651 Rob Randall

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 06:07 AM

back in nagara we thought nothing of driving 20km

 

Thank you, I learn something new here every day.

 

https://en.wikipedia..._(ancient_city)


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#8652 tommy

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 08:11 AM

Thank you, I learn something new here every day.

 

https://en.wikipedia..._(ancient_city)

i admit to being old...but not THAT old!  ;-)



#8653 Mike K.

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:27 AM

For anyone who does't believe me, the Vegas Strip (minus downtown, so only the Strat to the Welcome to Vegas sign south of Mandalay Bay) is literally the distance to Goldstream at Vetarans from downtown Victoria as the bird flies.

 

Millions of people leisurely stroll the Vegas Strip, and think nothing of it. Victorians consider Langford a deep suburb. How wonky is that?

 

The distance from downtown Victoria to Langford is = downtown Victoria to Gordon Head. One is "suburbia," the other "inner core."


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#8654 Greg

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:33 AM

For anyone who does't believe me, the Vegas Strip (minus downtown, so only the Strat to the Welcome to Vegas sign south of Mandalay Bay) is literally the distance to Goldstream at Vetarans from downtown Victoria as the bird flies.

 

Millions of people leisurely stroll the Vegas Strip, and think nothing of it. Victorians consider Langford a deep suburb. How wonky is that?

 

The distance from downtown Victoria to Langford is = downtown Victoria to Gordon Head. One is "suburbia," the other "inner core."

 

I imagine if people could stroll from Langford to Downtown "as the crow flies" it wouldn't be considered suburbia. You're absolutely right that distance isn't the main factor, it's the requirement to get in your car and drive from one place to the other that makes it seem suburban. A train connection or faster bus service would probably also change the way it is viewed. But if having wine with your dinner means you either have to take an expensive cab ride, or a long bus ride to get home, you're in the suburbs.



#8655 Mike K.

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:38 AM

So you can't walk from your downtown Langford condo to a downtown Langford restaurant?

 

Does a Gordon Head resident not need to drive to Costco?


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#8656 sebberry

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:45 AM

The Goose links downtown Langford with downtown Victoria.  Just needs some ice cream stands along the way.


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#8657 Greg

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:49 AM

So you can't walk from your downtown Langford condo to a downtown Langford restaurant?

 

Does a Gordon Head resident not need to drive to Costco?

 

Of course you can walk to a Langford restaurant. That's what people in the suburbs do. And no one needs to drive to Costco.

 

Kidding aside, there's nothing wrong with either of those. But when you talk about things like not going downtown to eat because it is too hard to arrange transportation home, and driving to Costco to stock up, you're pretty much describing a suburban lifestyle. And there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want.



#8658 North Shore

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:49 AM

I think Langford's 'problem' is that people still look at it through the 'dogpatch' lens: ramshackle houses, jacked-up camaros, etc..  It's a cultural distance rather than a physical one..


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#8659 Greg

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:50 AM

^Not me. I think there is some great real estate in Langford. I see it exactly as Mike is pushing back on, a nice suburb that would leave me disconnected with the downtown lifestyle I prefer.


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#8660 Awaiting Juno

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:24 AM

The Goose links downtown Langford with downtown Victoria.  Just needs some ice cream stands along the way.

 

Better lighting might also help and maybe some bicycle cops making regular patrols.


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