1571 replies to this topic

[dkuitu]

I was spending more of my time and money downtown when I worked remotely. Mind you, I live downtown.

[Barrrister]

What seems obvious is that Matt Dell is a total fool, worse still judging by his comments he thinks that the public are total fools. Sure lets all go to Centennial Square where you and your dog can get kicked.

 

Downtown Victoria is simply less desirable than it used to be and the city needs to refocus itself to preserve the tourist trade and independent businesses. 

[Mike K.]

I really don’t appreciate the calling of people fools. Discuss the issue, please. Don’t dehumanize others. Nothing good comes of it.

[Stephen James]

I really don’t appreciate the calling of people fools. Discuss the issue, please. Don’t dehumanize others. Nothing good comes of it.

appreciate your (usually) steady hand mr. k., and take this reminder to heart.

 

the selfishness, suspected narcissism, makes me white-hot angry because it's anathema to the idea of the job. so I also become intemperate

Edited by Stephen James, 28 February 2023 - 11:07 AM.

[aastra]

The mention of Centennial Square is a bit crazy. It was a bit crazy when Victoria's politicians in the 1960s thought Centennial Square would be a big draw even before they had knocked the first building down. It was a bit crazy when Victoria's politicians in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s still thought Centennial Square could be a big draw if only the right modifications were made to it.

 

It's been 60 years. It will never be a big draw. Because it's just a modern civic square. At best a square like that (if visually appealing, safe & clean) would be something pleasant to enjoy if you're already in the neighbourhood. But it would never have any kind of strong drawing power. Are we still thinking there could be major special events in the square 365 days a year that could possibly have measurable impact on a downtown the size of downtown Victoria? This kind of thinking is disconnected from reality.

 

It's another one of those many mysteries of politics. How is it possible that every politician in Victoria, whether young or old, whether outsiders or born-and-raised, would continue to share this same delusion despite everything they've seen and experienced in their lives?

Voids and nothings don't draw people. Every Victoria politician understands this re: their regular trips to Uptown or Langford. They aren't going to those places to indulge in purposelessness or to revel in emptiness. But they act like they can't grasp this concept re: downtown. Even though for much of Victoria's history the downtown area was king precisely because it was the only part of the city where there was a ton of something instead of a whole bunch of nothing. There was thriving business (big and small), lots of (barf) traffic whether on wheels or on foot, and the environment was generally clean and safe (you know, like those shopping malls are generally clean and safe, hence their appeal).

 

I've heard people say: if the square at Uptown is successful then why can't downtown do the same thing? They never consider other important details, like how the windows along Uptown's main street are clear instead of opaque, or how Uptown's square is an intimate urban space similar to Bastion Square rather than a gaping open space like Centennial Square, or how there's a strong flow of people traffic going through Uptown's square for much of the day and night.

 

[Victoria Watcher]

And Uptown doesn’t allow loitering.

[Nparker]

And Uptown doesn’t allow loitering.

Or safe consumption sites.

[Stephen James]

Mike,

Although I agree the wfh change may be dire for dt Victoria, especially combined with such terrible other (all?) policy from city hall...

1. "office work" in the context of "work" over the last thousand, several thousand, years may appear to future historians to be a weird "blip", that's hard to explain.
2. it's hard to say that all the inevitable change in dt will be negative, as a result.
3. despite a lifetime in the pvt sector, I struggle with the idea that any population "serves" the business community. business is risk. at every risk meeting I've attended, the one we laugh about, the one that can't be mitigated, or insured, is gov policy change.
4. it could be tried, to legislate business traffic, if wfh is a permanent change but i think we'd have to plan strategically with the assumption it won't work well, or for long
5. the most important changes necessary to preserve downtown Victoria as a desirable, fun, vibrant place to live and visit are:
   1. Build a campaign to beat the NDP in Victoria municipal politic starting next year, latest
   2. Amalgamation

[Mike K.]

So aastra, are you saying, that every time a Victoria urbanist posts a photo of a parking lot and bemoans the use of that space for such a lifeless activity, that we should post photos of Centennial Square?

[Stephen James]

The mention of Centennial Square is a bit crazy. It was a bit crazy when Victoria's politicians in the 1960s thought Centennial Square would be a big draw even before they had knocked the first building down. It was a bit crazy when Victoria's politicians in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s still thought Centennial Square could be a big draw if only the right modifications were made to it.

 

It's been 60 years. It will never be a big draw. Because it's just a modern civic square. At best a square like that (if visually appealing, safe & clean) would be something pleasant to enjoy if you're already in the neighbourhood. But it would never have any kind of strong drawing power. Are we still thinking there could be major special events in the square 365 days a year that could possibly have measurable impact on a downtown the size of downtown Victoria? This kind of thinking is disconnected from reality.

 

It's another one of those many mysteries of politics. How is it possible that every politician in Victoria, whether young or old, whether outsiders or born-and-raised, would continue to share this same delusion despite everything they've seen and experienced in their lives?

Voids and nothings don't draw people. Every Victoria politician understands this re: their regular trips to Uptown or Langford. They aren't going to those places to indulge in purposelessness or to revel in emptiness. But they act like they can't grasp this concept re: downtown. Even though for much of Victoria's history the downtown area was king precisely because it was the only part of the city where there was a ton of something instead of a whole bunch of nothing. There was thriving business (big and small), lots of (barf) traffic whether on wheels or on foot, and the environment was generally clean and safe (you know, like those shopping malls are generally clean and safe, hence their appeal).

 

I've heard people say: if the square at Uptown is successful then why can't downtown do the same thing? They never consider other important details, like how the windows along Uptown's main street are clear instead of opaque, or how Uptown's square is an intimate urban space similar to Bastion Square rather than a gaping open space like Centennial Square, or how there's a strong flow of people traffic going through Uptown's square for much of the day and night.

I haven't seen anyone having a mental break, screaming in Uptown Square.

I've seen that once a week, just myself, downtown.

[Stephen James]

No-one has ever said to me "Gimme all you got!" in Uptown Square; my partner has never been chased down the road; I don't remember seeing anyone squatting to relieve themselves...

[Mike K.]

 

Mike,

Although I agree the wfh change may be dire for dt Victoria, especially combined with such terrible other (all?) policy from city hall...

1. "office work" in the context of "work" over the last thousand, several thousand, years may appear to future historians to be a weird "blip", that's hard to explain.
2. it's hard to say that all the inevitable change in dt will be negative, as a result.
3. despite a lifetime in the pvt sector, I struggle with the idea that any population "serves" the business community. business is risk. at every risk meeting I've attended, the one we laugh about, the one that can't be mitigated, or insured, is gov policy change.
4. it could be tried, to legislate business traffic, if wfh is a permanent change but i think we'd have to plan strategically with the assumption it won't work well, or for long
5. the most important changes necessary to preserve downtown Victoria as a desirable, fun, vibrant place to live and visit are:
   1. Build a campaign to beat the NDP in Victoria municipal politic starting next year, latest
   2. Amalgamation

 

 

It wasn't all that terribly long-ago that the downtown area was mostly farmland. So it's true, that things can drastically change and that we'll be 'ok.'

 

The question I have, though, is who will fund Victoria's $300 million going on $400 million budget, when the business community pays such a massive percentage of that cost? It was only 10 years ago that the budget was $200 million, believe it or not (in 2013).

 

And for the first time, I think, Victoria is faced with unwinding what came before, as opposed to building on what was already there. I'm not sure if we're going to find it all that easy to step back, as all the mechanisms we have are meant to build on what's already there.

[Stephen James]

Centennial Square is an empty concrete wasteland because there's no reason to go there, and a few reasons to avoid it.

 

Go to any vibrant, busy d.t. gathering place anywhere in the world and see what's different, lol.

[Victoria Watcher]

Well, commercial building owners must pay it, I’m not sure a recent article or letter that suggested a drop in commercial property tax will happen fast.

This city lacks leadership.

[aastra]

 

No-one has ever said to me "Gimme all you got!" in Uptown Square; my partner has never been chased down the road; I don't remember seeing anyone squatting to relieve themselves...

 

EXACTLY.

 

Politicians offer such a superficial & false analysis because people who believe politics is real still desire superficiality & falseness.

[Stephen James]

It wasn't all that terribly long-ago that the downtown area was mostly farmland. So it's true, that things can drastically change and that we'll be 'ok.'

 

The question I have, though, is who will fund Victoria's $300 million going on $400 million budget, when the business community pays such a massive percentage of that cost? It was only 10 years ago that the budget was $200 million, believe it or not (in 2013).

 

And for the first time, I think, Victoria is faced with unwinding what came before, as opposed to building on what was already there. I'm not sure if we're going to find it all that easy to step back, as all the mechanisms we have are meant to build on what's already there.

Yes. It's terrifying. I may have mentioned - I looked through the budget documents for the very first time, soup to nuts. It's going to get worse. Maybe this is what will force amalgamation, finally... as in other jurisdictions.

 

It's also true that when a dt is flushed down the toilet by bad policy, it can take a generation to bring it back. This is one reason why the NDP could have the next prophet as their leader and I'll hold my nose and vote for anyone else. All politics is local and what the NDP has done to my city, I'll never forgive.

 

Look, I think there's less than 0 chance of prudent fiscal management at CoV... quite the opposite. These non-slate (edited) persons are not interested in whether the property owner can absorb these taxes and still keep the home, or eat, or buy medicine. Not relevant. 

These are academics who've worked hard to affirm their ideas within their bubble, and believe they're saving us (2nd), while furthering their political careers (1st), justified because they can do even MORE impactful work in higher office. So it will get worse.

 

How many people will be looking up "municipal tax revolt" after year after year of tax increases substantially above inflation? I think the public outcry over the RBCM bill is an interesting bellwether and surprised some in gov: that we, the great unwashed, were so quickly, and effectively, angry about a spending proposal says we're not completely asleep...maybe far from it. But it will take action to reverse what's happening to us and, with 37% turnout, obviously the money isn't there yet to mount a defence. So it will get worse.

 

Btw, I suspect M Dell is actually the one who'd be most receptive to this discussion. Despite his gormless (I hope gormless is ok; it's perfect in this case) casting of unfiltered ideas at every problem, conversations with him are less retarded by ideological denials of truth. I've heard, ironically, that the non-slate doesnt trust him, which is probably why he gets jobs like smearing Chief Manak. The non-slate, like a criminal gang, requires acts of loyalty (at arm's length, lol.)

[Mike K.]

Since 2013 through 2023, in the CoV:

 

50% city hall budget increase

26% inflation (Canadian inflation)

15% population increase

 

These are approximate figures.

 

By 2028, the muni is on-track for a $400 million city hall budget.

[Nparker]

...This is one reason why the NDP could have the next prophet as their leader and I'll hold my nose and vote for anyone else. All politics is local and what the NDP has done to my city, I'll never forgive....

If someone put a gun to my head and told me they'd pull the trigger if I don't cast my vote for the NDP, I'd choose the bullet. It would be a quicker and less painful death than the one these woked-out socialists are giving us.

[Stephen James]

It was only 10 years ago that the budget was $200 million, believe it or not (in 2013).

 

And for the first time, I think, Victoria is faced with unwinding what came before, as opposed to building on what was already there. I'm not sure if we're going to find it all that easy to step back, as all the mechanisms we have are meant to build on what's already there.

Yup. What's been done here since Mayor Helps and TV took control is appalling and it felt like we've been asleep at the switch for 10 years. The last election 37% stunned me. I thought we were angry about this.

 

Remember Helps unilaterally abandoning the municipal bargaining unit? Was she honest about that? Did she mention it in her platform?

That one signal alone was what really got my attention and the strategy has been clear and obvious imo since.

[Victoria Watcher]

Victoria is never turning away from the NDP. Same as big cities will never vote Republican/Conservative. Just can’t happen.