26251 replies to this topic

[Greg]

If Trudeau had joined operation warp speed instead of going with the Chinese vaccine program we'd be fully open right now too. That's a fact.

 

Some folks keep repeating things here that are obviously untrue. The US is currently experiencing more cases and more deaths per capita than Canada. They are *not* open because of operation warp speed, they are open because they have chosen to be less risk averse. 

[Mike K.]

Naysayers and curmudgeons would rather blame about being a couple months behind. Negative news is more fun than positive. Complaining is more fun for whatever reason. Greg said it best, armchair quarterbacks who will whine and "I knew they should've done this..." Exhausting...

“A couple months behind” means a lot to someone running a business or working for a business impacted by COVID.

[Mike K.]

Some folks keep repeating things here that are obviously untrue. The US is currently experiencing more cases and more deaths per capita than Canada. They are *not* open because of operation warp speed, they are open because they have chosen to be less risk averse.

They are open because operation warp speed has given them the luxury of many choices. They can take the vaccine and go to concerts, or they can get sick without the vaccine by going to a bar (just like we can, and some people did recently right here in Victoria). Or they can take the vaccine and travel. Etc.

They opened precisely because of operation warp speed. They are not open in absence of its success (their success).

[Greg]

^ I think the issue most people have is that they were made to be guinea pigs without their knowledge in order to hit artificial targets. Now we are get the glad handing and back slapping when in fact a lot of people are potentially screwed as a result. 

 

Unless you did a lot of your own research like I and several others here did you never knew about the problems with the AZ vaccine. You were never told that it came from a factory designated as contaminated, that the US wouldn't allow the vaccine to be given to its own citizens, that it was ineffective against the most virulent strains. Instead the political class and "health experts" made sure they got the "good stuff" while telling you to shut up and take whatever was offered. Now those people who did as they were told may not be able to travel to the US and are at much higher risk to health risks from variants than those they listened to. 

 

Sure the AZ vaccine is better than nothing but lets not celebrate how people were misled to get to where we are.

 

I don't know what your deal is with AZ, maybe you're shorting their stock, but you keep saying things that aren't actually true. The US hasn't prevented anyone from getting AZ, the company has never applied for approval in the USA. The idea that it is ineffective is simply incorrect, and real-world-evidence is pretty clear on this. The UK overwhelmingly relied on the AZ vaccine, and their current death rate is lower than the US, Canada, and pretty much every where else.

 

Also AZ is as effective against the Delta variant as Pfizer in terms of preventing hospitalizations (Pfizer 96% effective after two doses; AZ 92% effective against two doses). I mean, if you want to bash a vaccine for only being 92% effective against preventing hospitalizations, then carry on. I'm perfectly happy to have had two doses of AZ, and it isn't because I'm poorly informed or a guinea pig. It's because I understand the data well enough to reject fear mongering.

[Mike K.]

Given a choice, I would not reach for the 92% vaccine. I’d reach for the 96%.

[Greg]

So you don't understand confidence intervals, basically. Because statistically, those results are indistinguishable from one another. 

[Sparky]

Isn’t there a 4% difference?

[Greg]

The percentages are for the sample. We don't know the true percentages for the overall population of interest. The 95% confidence interval would have a significant overlap. It isn't possible to say with any level of certainty that one is better than the other based on the sample. If you have to pick one, there is nothing irrational about picking the one with the higher number, but it would be incorrect to assume that the difference is meaningful.

[vortoozo]

Isn’t there a 4% difference?

 

You just proved Greg's point.

[m3m]

Thank you Greg for your tireless efforts in this thread and others. Few others would have the patience.

[Mike K.]

So you don't understand confidence intervals, basically. Because statistically, those results are indistinguishable from one another.

Hmmm, I’d still go for the 96%.

[tanker]

“A couple months behind” means a lot to someone running a business or working for a business impacted by COVID.

It's also not a couple of months we're talking about here. The us is fully open right now. We won't be for at least 4 months probably more.

[Mike K.]

Thank you Greg for your tireless efforts in this thread and others. Few others would have the patience.

I concur, Greg and others have done a good job.

There is nothing, though, that’s going to make our government’s failed promises less impactful. They could have said shipments are delayed, and said vaccinations would fall behind schedule. Such is life. But instead they kept finding excuses and insisting they were right all along. It’s the same thing with Mayor Fortin and his on time, on budget bridge.

[Barrrister]

The US is considering opening for people who are fully vaccinated. Unfortunately AZ does not count since it is not an approved vaccine in the US. This could get awkward.

[Victoria Watcher]

They are open because operation warp speed has given them the luxury of many choices. They can take the vaccine and go to concerts, or they can get sick without the vaccine by going to a bar (just like we can, and some people did recently right here in Victoria). Or they can take the vaccine and travel. Etc.

 

 

https://www.vicnews....pub-restaurant/

 

https://vancouverisl...sures-1.5470046

 

careful with what you say.  nobody "got sick by going to a bar" here in victoria.

 

a kitchen staffer tested positive and he or she worked at both bent mast and penny farthing.

 

there is no indication anybody other than that single staffer was infected.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2021 - 01:24 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

 

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2021 - 01:32 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

if Canadian provinces were US states, how they would rank in recent daily infection from worst (#1) to best.

 

1. Yukon

2. Manitoba

10.  Sask

27. Alberta

29. Ontario

30. Nunavut

39. BC

44. Quebec

50. all the Atlantic provinces and NWT

 

yesterday:

 

1. Yukon

2. Manitoba

8. Sask

26. Alberta

30. Ontario

40. BC

43. Quebec

50. Nunavut and all the Atlantic provinces and NWT

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...sers-1.24332514

 

^ whoever said horgan did not get two AZ i doubt he staged a fake card and employed a medical person in on the deception.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2021 - 04:14 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

yesterday:

 

 

 

B.C. reported 109 new confirmed cases of COVID-19 on Friday, but none in the Island Health region.

 

The province reported 1,389 active cases of COVID-19, along with one additional death. There are 73 active cases in Island Health.

 

https://www.timescol...-b-c-1.24332468

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2021 - 05:18 AM.

[Mike K.]

https://www.vicnews....pub-restaurant/

https://vancouverisl...sures-1.5470046

careful with what you say. nobody "got sick by going to a bar" here in victoria.

a kitchen staffer tested positive and he or she worked at both bent mast and penny farthing.

there is no indication anybody other than that single staffer was infected.

Those are not the only not recent exposures. I’m speaking in broader terms. Our province shut down indoor dining up until three weeks ago, and before that the premier asked young people to smarten up as he announced what were the strictest travel restrictions in BC’s COVID history, and zeroed in on what were becoming lax treatments of rules at bar and dining establishments.

[Victoria Watcher]

I’ve read zero reports of anyone getting covid as a customer at a Victoria restaurant since this began.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2021 - 06:30 AM.