26251 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

I have never protested the vaccine - I am fully vaccinated myself - but this doesn't mean I support heavy-handed threats and job losses to coerce others into getting vaccinated.

[sebberry]

Honestly it's about workplace safety.

[Victoria Watcher]

For crying out loud.  How did we go from 'we need them to come up with a vaccine so we can get back to normal' to so many people protesting it?  

 

Couple things. 

 

• They told us we'd get to herd immunity way before 90% vaccinated.
• We never said "we need them to come up with a vaccine so we can all be forced to take it so we can get back to normal".

[Nparker]

Honestly it's about workplace safety.

Then why can't those who choose not to be vaccinated continue to work from home as many have for the past 18 months? Why the mandatory leave without pay?

[sebberry]

 

Couple things. 

 

• They told us we'd get to herd immunity way before 90% vaccinated.
• We never said "we need them to come up with a vaccine so we can all be forced to take it so we can get back to normal".

 

 

 

The problem is largely one of perspective.  We're living in the middle of this thing, seeing the science make discoveries, backtrack and evolve over time just like the virus is and complaining that the science is wrong.  Science is always evolving too.  We can't look at this through the same lens we look back on viruses that were dealt with 50 years ago.  Those too took experimentation, cooperation with vaccine uptake and time, but we look at them as singular events.  It doesn't work that way.  Eventually we'll also look back at COVID as a singular event that was (hopefully) eradicated.  It's all perspective.  

 

 

Then why can't those who choose not to be vaccinated continue to work from home as many have for the past 18 months? Why the mandatory leave without pay?

 

I don't disagree with that point.  I guess the issue is whether they need to come back the office at all.  

[Ismo07]

 

Couple things. 

 

• They told us we'd get to herd immunity way before 90% vaccinated.
• We never said "we need them to come up with a vaccine so we can all be forced to take it so we can get back to normal".

 

 

I never heard we'd get to herd immunity...  Those were assumptions which became incorrect very quickly...

 

While I never thought there would be this sort of coercion for the vaccine, I'm starting to be fine with it as we see the numbers pop out.

 

Then why can't those who choose not to be vaccinated continue to work from home as many have for the past 18 months? Why the mandatory leave without pay?

 

Because we live in a society....  Weren't other vaccines pretty much mandatory to a point over the years?

[Victoria Watcher]

The problem is largely one of perspective.  We're living in the middle of this thing, seeing the science make discoveries, backtrack and evolve over time just like the virus is and complaining that the science is wrong.  Science is always evolving too.  We can't look at this through the same lens we look back on viruses that were dealt with 50 years ago.  Those too took experimentation, cooperation with vaccine uptake and time, but we look at them as singular events.  It doesn't work that way.  Eventually we'll also look back at COVID as a singular event that was (hopefully) eradicated.  It's all perspective. 

 

This is well-written.  And I tend to agree with it mostly. 

 

But I'd be more accepting of the "evolution" if we were told in the past that there was  good chance the experts were getting lots/almost all wrong.  But they never told us that.  Sure they left some wiggle room, but they also made massive errors.

[Nparker]

...I don't disagree with that point.  I guess the issue is whether they need to come back the office at all.  

The past year and a half has proven that many BC Public Service employees could work from home full time.

[Victoria Watcher]

Weren't other vaccines pretty much mandatory to a point over the years?

 

No.  None have ever been mandatory.  Except some for grade school attendance I think in the past.  But not currently:  https://immunizebc.c...accinated-child

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 November 2021 - 11:09 AM.

[Nparker]

....Weren't other vaccines pretty much mandatory to a point over the years?

I have worked for the BC Public Service for over 30 years and never once have I been asked to prove my vaccination status for mumps, measles, rubella, whooping cough or polio. Certainly not as a condition of my continued employment.

It has also never been mandatory for me to be vaccinated for seasonal influenza.

[Ismo07]

No.  None have ever been mandatory.  Except some for grade school attendance I think in the past.  But not currently:  https://immunizebc.c...accinated-child

 

I think they are mandatory in certain fields and for sure when you travel.  Like weren't they ever mandatory in the past?  Before my time...

 

I have worked for the BC Public Service for over 30 years and never once have I been asked to prove my vaccination status for mumps, measles, rubella, whooping cough or polio. Certainly not as a condition of my continued employment.

It has also never been mandatory for me to be vaccinated for seasonal influenza.

 

No me either but those are all gone pretty much...  Now there is something new.  Years ago took me 3 months or something to get a licence, now it's longer, presumably for safety reasons, I never had to wear a safety vest while doing inspection, now I do.  Things change, sometimes for the first time ever and sometimes repeated... this is not the seasonal flu, that's for certain.  Easy to roll with that punch unless you are scared of your shadow I think...

 

Edit: there will be a lot of court cases resulting from this certainly....

Edited by Ismo07, 01 November 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Nparker]

.... this is not the seasonal flu, that's for certain.  Easy to roll with that punch unless you are scared of your shadow I think...

For many people their experience with COVID is no worse than the seasonal flu.

[Ismo07]

For many people their experience with COVID is no worse than the seasonal flu.

 

Yeah true, the ones who took Ivermectin I think... But for some it's way, way worse... It's a roll of the dice at this point....  I just don't think the comparison is fair to the poor flu... 

[Nparker]

BC has recorded approximately 205,000 COVID cases resulting in around 14,000 hospitalizations. The vast majority of people did not get significantly ill.

[Ismo07]

BC has recorded approximately 205,000 COVID cases resulting in around 14,000 hospitalizations. The vast majority of people did not get significantly ill.

 

And what's the number for the flu over the last 3 years?  And very good of you to only use BC numbers where we have been pretty good....  You might have convinced me using only island numbers.

Edited by Ismo07, 01 November 2021 - 12:44 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

And what's the number for the flu over the last 3 years?  And very good of you to only use BC numbers where we have been pretty good....  You might have convinced me using only island numbers.

 

very few "report" the flu, no?  i might have had the flu a few times as a kid, but certainly a doctor or hospital or clinic never heard about it. 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 November 2021 - 12:54 PM.

[Nparker]

...And very good of you to only use BC numbers where we have been pretty good....

I only used BC numbers because for the most part I am only subject to BC COVID regulations and restrictions.

[Spy Black]

Thank goodness we've got Provincial Legislation to count on, legislation and legislators that are capable (and willing) to make these requirements mandatory under threat of legal action.

 

I've no sympathy for unvaccinated Provincial Government Employees. Lead by example or hit the road is a worthy policy to apply to the 35,000 Provincial Gov't employees, all of whom are on the taxpayers (read MY) dime whether they're drawing a salary, or whether their medical coverage kicks in for the year after they contract COVID and have to stay home to fully recover.

 

Left to our own devices, human beings once again prove that many (definitely not most, but certainly many) have a profound lack of judgement, along with an equally profound lack of concern for those to whom catching COVID might equal a death sentence (seniors and the immunocompromised).

[Victoria Watcher]

why are some government workers mandated to get the vaccine (BC provincial, Saanich, Esquimalt), and not others (CoV, Colwood, Nanaimo)?  this would seem more a political issue that a health or worker safety issue.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 01 November 2021 - 01:04 PM.

[Ismo07]

very few "report" the flu, no?  i might have had the flu a few times as a kid, but certainly a doctor or hospital or clinic never heard about it. 

 

I would never suggest this comparison.. Certainly there have been many Covid cases never reported...

 

I only used BC numbers because for the most part I am only subject to BC COVID regulations and restrictions.

 

Fine use flu numbers as well then...  This is your comparison

 

Thank goodness we've got Provincial Legislation to count on, legislation and legislators that are capable (and willing) to make these requirements mandatory under threat of legal action.

 

I've no sympathy for unvaccinated Provincial Government Employees. Lead by example or hit the road is a worthy policy to apply to the 35,000 Provincial Gov't employees, all of whom are on the taxpayers (read MY) dime whether they're drawing a salary, or whether their medical coverage kicks in for the year after they contract COVID and have to stay home to fully recover.

 

Left to our own devices, human beings once again prove that many (definitely not most, but certainly many) have a profound lack of judgement, along with an equally profound lack of concern for those to whom catching COVID might equal a death sentence (seniors and the immunocompromised).

 

Exactly...  Vaccine is simply the mathematical choice no matter how you count....