738 replies to this topic

[max.bravo]

Nope.  

 

Where can I sign up for natural HIV immunity too?  Do I just go and get infected with a deadly virus to build up my protection?

It sounds like you don't agree that the Quebec Health Officer's recommendation is indirectly acknowledging the value of natural immunity via prior infection.

 

I'm very curious: why do you think they are recommending only people over 60 who have not had a prior infection should continue getting boosters?

 

If that recommendation is not acknowledging the value of natural immunity, then what is the reason for differential advice based on whether you've already had covid or not? 

Edited by max.bravo, 06 February 2023 - 10:53 AM.

[sebberry]

Because they are children and that is how immunity develops.

 

Right.  And I can unequivocally state that no adult coworker of mine has ever taken a sick day due to colds/flu.  They're all totally immune.  

[sebberry]

It sounds like you don't agree that the Quebec Health Officer's recommendation is indirectly acknowledging the value of natural immunity via prior infection.

 

I'm very curious: why do you think they are recommending only people over 60 who have not had a prior infection should continue getting boosters?

 

If that recommendation is not acknowledging the value of natural immunity, then what is the reason for differential advice based on whether you've already had covid or not? 

 

You mean - the governments that have been misleading us this whole time are now suddenly telling the truth?  

[Victoria Watcher]

You really think HIV and respiratory viruses are similar?

[sebberry]

You really think HIV and respiratory viruses are similar?

 

You really think COVID is just a respiratory virus?

[Victoria Watcher]

It’s 100,000x different than HIV.

[max.bravo]

You mean - the governments that have been misleading us this whole time are now suddenly telling the truth?  

No, I'm really asking you here. If you don't think this is an admission that natural/acquired immunity is a factor in the official QC PHO recommendation, then what's the basis for the advice? Don't wiggle out of this - you present yourself as an arbiter of truth. So what's going on, in your estimation?

[Stephen James]

 this is an admission that natural/acquired immunity is a factor in the official QC PHO recommendation,

 

If you're asking, this could also be confirmation bias, that you're interpreting something in the way you'd like it to be.

I do it all the time because I like to be right.

[max.bravo]

If you're asking, this could also be confirmation bias, that you're interpreting something in the way you'd like it to be.

I do it all the time because I like to be right.

yeah, we are all susceptible to confirmation bias. 

I'm asking sebberry (and you, if you like) to use critical thinking skills to tell me what that piece of advice alludes to, if not a nod to acquired immunity being somewhat of a factor. Care to take a stab?

 

I'm tired of midwits just dropping the names of various logical fallacies, or throwing around pithy quips, without actually showing us their cognitive process. Sidestepping actual questions in order to sound skeptical is easy, but if that's the extent of your 'rational thinking' then you need to go home and think hard before coming back to discuss with the big boys. I'm asking a real question. Does sebberry have an answer?

[Nparker]

"Midwits". Love it. 

[Matt R.]

Conflating these two viruses is idiotic.

Yes you’re right. HIV has proven and highly effective treatments.

[Victoria Watcher]

Treatments you must take for a lifetime. It’s not the same.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 February 2023 - 11:49 AM.

[sebberry]

It’s 100,000x different than HIV.

 

I'm not disputing the fact that it's different - but what evidence do you have that, unlike HiV, SARS-COV-2 won't be a problem for those it infected 10, 15, 20 years out?  HIV isn't a respiratory virus either, but its initial infection presents very much like one.

[max.bravo]

I'm starting to believe one of the most damaging outcomes of the pandemic is how Trusting The Science was marketed as the high-iq thing to do. Suddenly, in order to be both an intellectual AND a good person, all you have to do is confess that you outsource all your thinking to The Experts. The People Who Know Far More About This Than Anyone Else.

 

What could be easier (and intellectually lazier?)

 

The problem is that science changes and experts are wrong. And that slick social marketing narrative-- the kind that allowed people like sebberry to latch (so pleasurably) onto the idea that they were the Smart Ones if they Trusted the Experts provides no mechanism for walking that backwards when you get to the place we're at now.

 

It's much easier to proclaim you have the truth and you're a good person for it, than to admit you might've made a mistake down the line. Especially if you've vilified an entire class of people who actually got things (more) right from the outset. The natural inclination is to double down, or avoid the hard questions by clinging onto your one-of-the-Smart-Ones personality, as sebberry does.

 

Not to mention, there is a clear and historically documented danger when you mix 'Being Virtuous' and 'Trusting Authority' in the same blender. Nothing good happens when governments coerce you using social marketing that appeals to your sense of superiority for following their orders... 

[Nparker]

... there is a clear and historically documented danger when you mix 'Being Virtuous' and 'Trusting Authority' in the same blender. Nothing good happens when governments coerce you using social marketing that appeals to your sense of superiority for following their orders... 

Amen to that.

[amor de cosmos]

i don't think it should be surprising that the best protection is a combination of natural immunity and vaccination. it only took a minute or two to find this. you guys can do it too:

 

In the last week, two new studies in the New England of Journal Medicine have bolstered that point and suggest that there is considerable benefit to getting vaccinated even after recovery from COVID-19. In the first study, researchers in Israel reviewed the medical records of individuals post-COVID infection and found that those who received at least one vaccine dose had a five-fold lower risk of reinfection. Too few subjects in their study sample received two doses to draw meaningful conclusions about the benefits of a second dose in this population, though.

 

The second study, among U.K. healthcare workers, was a more broad-ranging study that looked at different vaccines, dosing schedules and the effectiveness over time in both uninfected and previously infected individuals. However, when they looked at individuals previously infected with COVID-19, those who got two vaccine doses were more than 90 percent less likely to get reinfected than unvaccinated individuals even several months after their second doses.

 

When discussing different studies, it is important to acknowledge that they are often done in different countries, at different points of time, with different circulating variants, different vaccine protocols and using different methodologies. However, all these studies consistently indicate that an added benefit to getting vaccinated even if you previously caught COVID-19.

 

Ideally, you want to wait three months post-infection to get vaccinated, as current recommendations suggest. If you get vaccinated too soon after getting sick, it is likely that your body is still producing high levels of antibodies and the vaccine will likely not provide much of an immune boost. It is the same rationale that underlies spacing out vaccine doses.

 

Many people likely believe that prior infection will protect them forever, but unfortunately, it will not. The vaccines provide a critical immune boost to people who have recovered. That is, after all, what vaccines were designed to do.

https://www.mcgill.c...-has-its-limits

Edited by amor de cosmos, 06 February 2023 - 12:36 PM.

[max.bravo]

Because for years prior to this the scientists who said that natural immunity is a real thing were roasted and written off as conspiracy theorists, people like Sebberry won't believe what you posted until it comes out of Adrian Dix's mouth and CBC news finds a way to change the narrative without inducing cognitive dissonance.

 

Until a hot minute ago, "natural immunity" was a conspiracy theory on this forum.

 

Here's one April 2021 peer reviewed article that lumps "belief in natural immunity" alongside other forms of mouth-breathing vaccine hesitancy. 

The approval of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines sent waves of excitement and relief across the world. However, some people remain hesitant about receiving a vaccine for COVID-19 [1,2]. The World Health Organization noted in 2019 that one of the greatest threats to global health was vaccine hesitancy [3]. Emerging international evidence on COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy suggests that there is a range of reasons for this reluctance, including doubts about the safety and efficacy of the vaccine, political or pharmaceutical mistrust, belief in natural immunity, and the belief that the virus is mild or not life-threatening [4-6].

 

 

This is a paradigm shift -- one that so called "vaccine skeptics" have been talking about since 2020. 

[amor de cosmos]

natural immunity has always been a real thing, natural immunity *as a substitute for vaccination* is not. it's just as crazy as it ever was.

[Victoria Watcher]

natural immunity has always been a real thing, natural immunity *as a substitute for vaccination* is not. it's just as crazy as it ever was.

Depends on the malady. There had never been a vaccine for the common cold.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 February 2023 - 01:01 PM.

[max.bravo]

natural immunity has always been a real thing, natural immunity *as a substitute for vaccination* is not. it's just as crazy as it ever was.

Really? Because natural immunity *as a substitute for vaccination* has only been "crazy" since covid. 

 

Quick google search re: chickenpox vaccine vs. natural immunity shows this on the first results...