642 replies to this topic

[Redd42]

 

Maybe not as likely to seek help?
 

 

“..Reynhard Sinaga, a 36-year-old postgraduate student, had made this his home for more than seven years, living in a rented flat just a few moments' walk from Factory Nightclub.

Sinaga, originally from Indonesia, was a perpetual student. He already had four degrees and was studying for a doctorate. By night he was a serial sex offender.

He has been found guilty of drugging, raping and sexually assaulting 48 men, but police believe they are among at least 190 victims…”: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50688975

 

 

You really should have warned people about following that link.

[Victoria Watcher]

Questions of what would motivate brothers to enter a Vancouver Island bank dressed in body armour and prepared for a gun battle remain unanswered, but a criminologist sees similarities to two other young men who terrified Canadians in 2019.

 

Prof. Robert Gordon from Simon Fraser University’s school of criminology said there are parallels with the Saanich bank shootout last week and the murders of three people in B.C. and the subsequent suicides of their killers.

 

A manhunt for Port Alberni’s Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, and Kam McLeod, 19, lasted nearly a month in the summer of 2019 before they were found dead in northern Manitoba.

 

Twenty-two-year-old Mathew and Isaac Auchterlonie of Duncan, B.C., were killed by police in a shootout that left six officers injured outside a Bank of Montreal branch in Saanich on June 28.

Police have said the men also had explosive devices in their vehicle.

 

“There’s a bigger issue here, and I find it kind of fascinating, is the infectious nature of some of this stuff,” Gordon said in an interview.

 

The minds of men who are drawn to firearms and not doing “very well” in life are intriguing, he said, noting the failed application of one of the twins to join the armed forces.

“What gets into the minds of these young men is beyond belief.”

 

 

https://www.todayinb...-criminologist/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 06 July 2022 - 08:36 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

The two 22-year-old brothers who died in a shootout with police at a Saanich bank last week were likely motivated by money and thrill-seeking, and their choices indicate they were amateurs, says a University of Alberta criminologist. Isaac and Mathew Auchterlonie of the Cowichan Valley were killed at the Bank of Montreal branch on Shelbourne Street on June 28.

 

Temitope Oriola, a professor of criminology and sociology, said money was likely the central motive, and the thrill of getting money would have been on the men’s minds more than the possibility of injury or death.

 

“At age 22, unless they were on a suicide mission, they would likely not have fully calculated or appreciated the risks they were assuming and the possibility that their mission might fail spectacularly,” said Oriola, president-elect of the Canadian Sociological Association.

 

“This inability to think through one’s conduct is common among younger offenders.”

 

The two would have deliberately picked the suburban Shelbourne branch because of its location and smaller size, likely viewing it as an easier target than a larger bank with more sophisticated security, Oriola said.

 

“There is also the question of the capacity of the young men. They chose a branch that would have the quantity of cash two or three persons would be able to handle reasonably swiftly.”

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...st-says-5557194

[Victoria Watcher]

Greater Victorians are showing their appreciation for Saanich and Victoria police officers injured in a shootout at a Saanich bank last week by donating just over $195,000 to a growing online fundraising campaign.

 

By late afternoon Wednesday, 1,200 people had donated to the fund, set up by the Saanich Police Association and the Victoria City Police Union, with many sending heartfelt wishes to the officers and their families.

 

The original goal was $100,000.

 

 

https://www.timescol...-200000-5557195

 

 

^ Fake news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Online fundraiser started for police injured in Saanich shooting

 

More than $30,000 raised so far, goal set at $50,000

 

https://www.vancouve...anich-shooting/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 07 July 2022 - 05:12 AM.

[todd]

You really should have warned people about following that link.

sorry thought the paragraph was enough warning, or was it that it opens to the British Broadcasting Corporation

Edited by todd, 07 July 2022 - 05:49 AM.

[JimV]

Breathtakingly penetrating insights by Rob Gordon and Temitope Oriola.  No wonder they get paid the big bucks!

[todd]

Breathtakingly penetrating insights by Rob Gordon and Temitope Oriola.  No wonder they get paid the big bucks!

didn’t we come up with the same insights?

[JimV]

Ah, yeah.

[todd]

Ah, yeah.

watch the Criminal Minds series occasionally

[pontcanna]

Police book more time at gun range for 'reintegration' training in wake of Saanich shooting

Officers with the Saanich and Victoria police departments will have a larger presence at a South Island gun range this month following an intense shooting that left two suspects dead and six officers injured last week.

The Victoria Police Department says the increased time at the range is part of a "reintegration" process for officers who were involved in the incident.

Time at the range allows officers to acclimatize to the sound of gunfire and firearms in a safe environment, according to VicPD. A psychologist is also on hand and participants explore whichever parts of the training they are most interested in.

"The program has been designed to acknowledge that the officer has been through a traumatic event and to provide the opportunity to work through any triggers the event has created, while ensuring the officer is in the safety of a controlled environment," said VicPD in a statement Thursday.

Victoria Fish and Game Protective Association president Douglas Bancroft says the increase in police bookings at the range came up on short notice.

Bancroft told CTV News the association's 5,000-plus members are overwhelmingly supportive of the last-minute adjustments to civilian range hours to accommodate the increased police training.

The Victoria Police Department says the training scheduled at the gun range is intended to reduce the potential for long-term mental health impacts from the shooting.

 

More: https://vancouverisl...oting-1.5978565

 

[LJ]

Time at the range allows officers to acclimatize to the sound of gunfire and firearms in a safe environment, according to VicPD.

 

Hmm, every time I have gone to a range everybody is wearing hearing protection, I'm pretty sure they don't wear that in the field.

[pontcanna]

Our military has the best class of people

• Times Colonist
• 9 Jul 2022
•  

Re: “Shootout pair likely seeking a thrill, crime expert says,” July 7.

 

The article might have been believable and credible until Temitope Ariole connected this atrocity with the Canadian Armed Forces.

 

That inference to the CAF as a radical right-wing haven is criminological and sociological gobbledygook. You will not find a better class or group of men and woman anywhere in Canada — men and women who hold strong values and beliefs and who possess a high standard of morality and sense of service to their country.

 

Are there some bad apples? Yes, but you will find them everywhere in society, including academia and in Ariole’s profession as well.

 

I would say that the Canadian Armed Forces have checks and balances in place to identify and weed out the undesirables through their recruitment process — just like they did with Mathew Auchterlonie.

 

John Morrison, Lieutenant Commander (ret.) Mill Bay

 

More: https://www.timescol...council-5565658

 

Edited by pontcanna, 09 July 2022 - 05:59 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Police officers involved in last week’s shootout outside a Saanich bank will be using the Victoria Fish and Game Protective Association’s shooting range as part of an effort to reduce psychological trauma from the incident.

 

Victoria and Saanich police officers will work with a psychologist at the range on the Malahat in a program aimed at easing the process of returning to work, Victoria police spokesman Cam MacIntyre said Friday.

 

The participant-led process could include exploring what it feels like to hold a firearm, what it sounds like and the smell after it is fired, he said. An officer may feel comfortable using the equipment, for example, but be bothered by sounds or certain potential scenarios and want to work on that, he said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...-trauma-5565620

 

 

 

 

An officer may feel comfortable using the equipment, for example, but be bothered by sounds or certain potential scenarios and want to work on that, he said.

 

 

 

Maybe they should look for a new line of work.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 July 2022 - 05:11 AM.

[David Bratzer]

Hmm, every time I have gone to a range everybody is wearing hearing protection, I'm pretty sure they don't wear that in the field.

 

It's a form of exposure therapy. It's not meant to duplicate the exact field conditions.

[David Bratzer]

 

Police officers involved in last week’s shootout outside a Saanich bank will be using the Victoria Fish and Game Protective Association’s shooting range as part of an effort to reduce psychological trauma from the incident.

 

Victoria and Saanich police officers will work with a psychologist at the range on the Malahat in a program aimed at easing the process of returning to work, Victoria police spokesman Cam MacIntyre said Friday.

 

The participant-led process could include exploring what it feels like to hold a firearm, what it sounds like and the smell after it is fired, he said. An officer may feel comfortable using the equipment, for example, but be bothered by sounds or certain potential scenarios and want to work on that, he said.

 

 

https://www.timescol...-trauma-5565620

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe they should look for a new line of work.

 

 

Imagine you were in a horrific car crash (disregard who is at fault etc.). After recovering, you are returning to work.  Part of your job involves driving a company vehicle.  Do you immediately speed onto the highway during rush hour? Or do you first drive it around the parking lot and a few side streets?

[Victoria Watcher]

Imagine you were in a horrific car crash (disregard who is at fault etc.). After recovering, you are returning to work.  Part of your job involves driving a company vehicle.  Do you immediately speed onto the highway during rush hour? Or do you first drive it around the parking lot and a few side streets?

 

I just think if you are "bothered by the sound" of a gun, you might want to leave gun work.

[David Bratzer]

I’m mostly joking. But the brain trust between the two organizations spent 4 or 5 days getting it set up, and chose a $50,000 target.

Now that’s out the window.

 

There was a lot going on in those four or five days. 

[Victoria Watcher]

There was a lot going on in those four or five days. 

 

So they underestimated the need, or underestimated the response?  Did they have a plan, if for example, donations exceeded the need/goal by nearly 5x?

 

https://www.gofundme...e-union-members

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 July 2022 - 06:01 AM.

[David Bratzer]

So they underestimated the need, or underestimated the response?  Did they have a plan, if for example, donations exceeded the need/goal by nearly 5x?

 

I'm not sure I understand your concern here. The results are similar to other medical fundraisers. 

[Spy Black]

I'm not sure "concern" is the right word, as opposed to simply wanting to understand the full and complete details behind an incident that left six people wounded, two people dead, and now a quarter of a million dollars designated to go to public servants who were injured in the performance of their public duties.

 

It's a matter of full transparency.

 

What the metrics are for distributing this money, along with determining if this amount of money is appropriate to be given to taxpayer funded public servants who will benefit from Municipal, Institutional and Foundational support as a result of their injuries are simply details that should be made very clear to the public.

 

• Is this fundraiser a creation of the Saanich Police Association, the Victoria Police Union, the SaanichPD, or the VictoriaPD?
• Is it appropriate for associations representing public servants to solicit public funds when financial support (for wounded Police Officers) is already a given?
• Who will distribute these funds?
• Who will determine what the distribution percentages will be?
• Will any person beyond the six wounded Officers benefit financially from this fundraising activity?
• Are the Mayors and Councils of the City of Victoria or the Municipality of Saanich approve in any way involved in promoting this fund-raising activity?

 

It's all too easy to say "don't worry about it, it's none of your business" ... but indeed any activity related to public servants in the performance of their duties is ultimately the publics business.

 

100% transparency, no secrecy or concealing information from the public ... it's no more complicated than that.

Edited by Spy Black, 09 July 2022 - 06:38 AM.