642 replies to this topic

[max.bravo]

The recruiter who failed him must be feeling good today.

Every little tidbit helps us learn something about the minds of these deranged boys.

[pontcanna]

Gun expert provides insight into legality of weapons used in Saanich shooting

July 4, 2022 - CHEK News

Gun experts say the 22-year-old brothers behind the Saanich shootout likely had purchased their guns legally, but the magazines which hold the bullets were illegal.

“It sounded like they had full capacity magazines which are currently prohibited in Canada,” said Rod Giltaca, CEO and executive director, Canadian Coalition for Firearm Rights, after listening to a new video submitted to CHEK News from Tuesday’s fatal botched bank robbery.

In Canada, semi-automatic rifles and shotguns are legally allowed to hold up to a maximum of five bullets.

 

 

“If you squeeze a sixth round into a magazine designed for those firearms that becomes a prohibited device like a hand grenade or a handgun in the eyes of the law,” said Giltaca.

As of right now, it’s impossible to know what kind of guns the Duncan twins Isaac and Mathew Auchterlonie were using. So far police haven’t released any information on the weapons they used.

But videos posted to Isaac’s Instagram account show the kinds of guns they had access to.

“They looked to be M14 clones. They were probably Chinese copies because the Chinese copies used to be rather inexpensive,” said Giltaca. “But those firearms were part of the group of the newly prohibited firearms on May 1st of 2020 that the Trudeau government banned.”

Isaac flaunted that ban on social media.

Since Canada’s 2020 assault rifle ban, gun owners have been allowed to keep their assault-style weapons, but not use them. 

“They couldn’t leave the house. They have to sit in storage, waiting for a gun buyback,” said Giltaca.

Giltaca says the federal’s gun buyback program for assault-style guns hasn’t begun.
 

RCMP (was) unable to confirm to CHEK News by deadline if the Auchterlonie brothers were licensed gun owners.

It’s unclear if the “M14 clones” were the guns Isaac and Mathew used to fire at and injure six police officers during their shootout last week.

 

More: https://www.cheknews...ooting-1056903/

 

 

[spanky123]

The recruiter who failed him must be feeling good today.

Every little tidbit helps us learn something about the minds of these deranged boys.

 

They must have been really screwed up for the CAF to reject them!

[spanky123]

Very few people who disagree with the Federal government's recent firearms regulations are ever going to act in the manner of the Auchterlonie brothers.

 

No but watch how this progresses. Already heard one "expert" on CTV today suggesting that people who disagree with the Government and support groups like the truckers need to be watched as those are "red flags".

 

Very sad circumstances for many families yet that doesn't stop politicians and their allies from trying to leverage it to their own advantage. 

[pontcanna]

Duncan brothers’ motive could be difficult to uncover in Saanich shootout: experts

 

CHEK-TV - July 4, 2022

Following last week’s deadly shooting at a BMO Bank in Saanich , authorities have not revealed an official motive of why the deceased shooters targeted that building, and some experts say finding a reason will be difficult.

Saanich Police say an update on the conditions and the names of the officers injured from their department will be given at a press conference on Tuesday, July 5.

Verified posts on Isaac’s Instagram page showed multiple images and videos of the brothers firing weapons, anti-government language, and footage from a deadly shootout that took place in North Hollywood, California in 1997.

University of Victoria associate psychology professor Paweena Sukhawathanakul, says finding one answer for the motive isn’t that simple.

 

 

“It’s a tendency for us to find one particular reason why someone would do something like that, but in reality, there’s many different types of influences,” said Sukhawathanakul.

The professor, who specializes in social and emotional development in children, says the answer is multi-layered with factors such as their upbringing, immediate social environments, and how they challenge viewpoints needing to be considered.

“If you are exposed to one ideology that limits you to a particular viewpoint, then it can be challenging for them to consider multiple viewpoints, especially if there aren’t many support systems around to help you understand,” said the professor.

She says as children grow into young adulthood they begin to question societal views and rules, seeking out answers elsewhere. Authority is one area that young adults start to challenge.

“Individuals also have a tendency want to belong in a particular group and who have common understand common perspectives,” said Sukhawathanakul. “In terms of being in a more extremists group, they might choose to affiliate with more views if it aligns with how they’ve been socialized or aligns with their common interests,”

Brad Galloway, a case worker for the Edmonton-based Organization for the Prevention of Violence’s EVOLVE program, helps with intervening with people who have been involved with extremists groups and are trying to leave.

He says that research shows that age range of members involved in right-wing and extremists groups has gone up, but in recent incidents, more involved younger adults.

 

 

“Things can come through family, things can also come through online environment and offline environment, peer groups, things like that,” said Galloway.

“If you’re just part of a gun club…that’s your hobby, to go to the gun range or whatever, that is not necessarily a risk factor on its own,” said Galloway. “But when you add in this so-called ‘patriot idea’ and then anti-government, anti-Trudeau stuff, if you add in all these rhetorics, that stuff together, this definitely put a different classification on the risk.”
 

More: https://www.cheknews...xperts-1056932/

 

 

[Belleprincess]

Duncan brothers’ motive could be difficult to uncover in Saanich shootout: experts


CHEK-TV - July 4, 2022

Following last week’s deadly shooting at a BMO Bank in Saanich , authorities have not revealed an official motive of why the deceased shooters targeted that building, and some experts say finding a reason will be difficult.

Saanich Police say an update on the conditions and the names of the officers injured from their department will be given at a press conference on Tuesday, July 5.

Verified posts on Isaac’s Instagram page showed multiple images and videos of the brothers firing weapons, anti-government language, and footage from a deadly shootout that took place in North Hollywood, California in 1997.

University of Victoria associate psychology professor Paweena Sukhawathanakul, says finding one answer for the motive isn’t that simple.

Screenshot 2022-07-04 21.33.39.png

“It’s a tendency for us to find one particular reason why someone would do something like that, but in reality, there’s many different types of influences,” said Sukhawathanakul.

The professor, who specializes in social and emotional development in children, says the answer is multi-layered with factors such as their upbringing, immediate social environments, and how they challenge viewpoints needing to be considered.

“If you are exposed to one ideology that limits you to a particular viewpoint, then it can be challenging for them to consider multiple viewpoints, especially if there aren’t many support systems around to help you understand,” said the professor.

She says as children grow into young adulthood they begin to question societal views and rules, seeking out answers elsewhere. Authority is one area that young adults start to challenge.

“Individuals also have a tendency want to belong in a particular group and who have common understand common perspectives,” said Sukhawathanakul. “In terms of being in a more extremists group, they might choose to affiliate with more views if it aligns with how they’ve been socialized or aligns with their common interests,”

Brad Galloway, a case worker for the Edmonton-based Organization for the Prevention of Violence’s EVOLVE program, helps with intervening with people who have been involved with extremists groups and are trying to leave.

He says that research shows that age range of members involved in right-wing and extremists groups has gone up, but in recent incidents, more involved younger adults.

Screenshot 2022-07-04 21.34.17.png

“Things can come through family, things can also come through online environment and offline environment, peer groups, things like that,” said Galloway.

“If you’re just part of a gun club…that’s your hobby, to go to the gun range or whatever, that is not necessarily a risk factor on its own,” said Galloway. “But when you add in this so-called ‘patriot idea’ and then anti-government, anti-Trudeau stuff, if you add in all these rhetorics, that stuff together, this definitely put a different classification on the risk.”

More: https://www.cheknews...xperts-1056932/

Given the events tonight in the states, this is what I was afraid of.

[Victoria Watcher]

[pontcanna]

 

 

On Monday, a handful of Gerbera daisies from a well-wisher and slabs of plywood boarding up shattered windows were among the few signs of the violence at the Shelbourne branch of the Bank of Montreal last Tuesday.

“It is worrying but we have to get back to our lives,” said Teresa, who works at a nearby grocery store. “We have to get back to work and get our groceries and all of that.”

For staff at Squeaky’s Laundromat across the street, there is a tangible reminder of the shootout: a bullet hole in the wall behind the cash register.

“We heard a lot of the shooting sounds,” said laundromat owner Edward Park. “But we didn’t notice that a bullet had actually come through.”

On Tuesday around 11 a.m., Park looked out the window of his business and saw two men in army gear and black masks at the bank across the street.

A few moments later, gunshots rang out. Park and three other staff members lay flat on the ground, uncertain of what was happening.

It wasn’t until a few days later that police found a bullet lodged in a comforter that had been folded neatly on a shelf behind the cash. When they unfolded the comforter, they found that the bullet had ripped holes through its folded layers.

It was beyond repair, but Park was just grateful the bullet didn’t hit any of the gas pipes, or worse, an employee.

“I’m very relieved. We are very lucky,” he said. “My workers were scared and terrified. I’m just trying to take care of my employees so they do not have serious trauma.

“We are so busy — a lot of clients were waiting for us to open,” he said. “We try not to look at the bullet hole.”

Madison Lowe was walking to the bank to deliver a deposit when she noticed an unusual police presence at the branch. She started talking to another bystander, Paul Arnold, when shots rang out.

“All of a sudden, stuff started happening [and] guns started going off, so he grabbed me and we hid behind the truck until it stopped,” she said. “And then I just went back to work.”

Lowe said she stayed home from work the next day. A week later, she still finds being in the area “a bit freaky.”

“It’s nice now that this is open,” she said, pointing to Shelbourne Street. “With the road being closed, it was just a reminder that something happened here a few days ago.”

Tracey Hanna, who lives metres from the crime scene, said the shootout and its aftermath were surreal, “like living in a crime drama.”

“There was the gunshots, the yelling and the screaming and then it was done,” she said.

“It seemed like forever but I know it wasn’t very long. And then total chaos for the next couple of days.”

Bank of Montreal spokesman Jeff Roman said in an email that the Shelbourne branch will reopen “soon,” although he didn’t provide a date.

Employees working at the branch are being paid, he said, and counsellors are on site to help staff.

Greater Victoria Police Victim Services said it’s helping roughly 30 people in relation to the robbery and shootings, and expects the number to grow over the next few weeks as people “start to process the magnitude of the incident and the emotions that come along with that,” said executive director Karyn French.

“There’s a real range of emotions — anything from fear to shock, sadness, anger and gratitude for the first responders.

“It is very normal for people to experience a wide range of emotional and physical [reactions], what you might call aftershocks, from witnessing or being involved in such a dramatic event.”

Anyone who needs support can call the police victim services office at 250-995-7351 or email info@gvpvs.org.

 

More: https://www.timescol...aanich-5543181

[pontcanna]

On the front lines, and in her family

 

My son-in-law is a Victoria police officer and my daughter an RN in the Royal Jubilee Hospital emergency department.

 

They were both caught up in this horrific incident on June 28 — my son-in-law having to watch his teammates bleeding and badly wounded and my daughter having to deal with friends and colleagues as they were brought into emergency.

Both these young people work hard.

 

My son-in-law and all police go into work everyday not knowing what they will have to deal with — but deal with it they do with professionalism and empathy. Then they go home to their families and have to be just good old moms and dads.

 

What they saw and dealt with on June 28 will be forever in their minds.

 

Thank you to all the police and frontline workers who dedicate so much time and effort to help those around them. I applaud you. Let’s support them.

 

Jill Taylor, Oak Bay

 

 

Municipal councils must support police

 

Meaningful support for our hardworking police officers needs to come from municipal councils.

 

As evidenced from the June 28 attempted bank robbery in Saanich, police play a critical role in responding to incidents of violence and threats to public safety. Yet, our police are understaffed and overworked.

 

To help reduce crime, councils need to empower our police forces; pay them well; hire more of them; support and stand behind them when they have to do their jobs; and allow them to enforce our laws.

 

Police budgets should not be such a bone of contention that B.C.’s public safety minister has to wade into budget disputes between council and their police board.

 

Councils must call out and act upon anti-police slogans or acronyms on citysponsored murals, etc. as offensive and disrespectful hate speech.

 

Bottom line is that if police departments suffer, the public will suffer. Our police deserve better, and citizens must demand it.

 

Maggie Skaarup, North Saanich

 

More: https://www.timescol...-speech-5547517

 

 

[Spy Black]

Municipal councils must support police

Bottom line is that if police departments suffer, the public will suffer. Our police deserve better, and citizens must demand it.

Maggie Skaarup, North Saanich

Yeah ... No.

There's a huge difference between respecting the rule of law, and somehow being obliged to unreservadly respect individual police officers without having a clue what their personalities or abilities are like.

 

Kowtowing to police officers simply because they joined a police department isn't, and shouldn't ever be on.

Individuals earn the respect of those around them, it's not given simply because of ones station in life.

 

Many police officers struggle with the concept of power tripping on the general public, and as with all government officials, they must demonstrate an ability to balance their duties with citizens rights ... and that demonstration of ability has to take place over years (if not decades) before unreserved "respect" would be offered.

I treat police officers no differently than I treat anybody else I encounter in the going about of my business ... and will only form an opinion of them after I've engaged with them to a point where I'm comfortable forming that opinion.

They don't get a free ticket to instant respect simply because they wear a uniform.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the police officers in the BMO shooting were simply doing their jobs. Like firefighters who rush into burning buildings, and often have to deal with scenes of profound tragedy inside those buildings ... they are still simply doing the job they're trained and paid to do.

When folks perform the duties expected of them as a result of their employment, that's not a ticket to some exemplary level of "respect" ... or every day I sit at my desk I would expect some exemplary level of respect to be bestowed upon me ... which I don't, and neither does any of the other couple of hundred thousand workers in the region who go to work every day and perform their duties to the best of their abilities.

 

I have a fundamental, and deep respect for the rule of law, but that deep respect doesn't translate over to individual police officers until such time as they've demonstrated clearly that they deserve my respect.

Edited by Spy Black, 05 July 2022 - 05:28 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the police officers in the BMO shooting were simply doing their jobs. Like firefighters who rush into burning buildings, and often have to deal with scenes of profound tragedy inside those buildings ... they are still simply doing the job they're trained and paid to do.

 

Except I have a feeling that they did not do their jobs properly here.

 

I find it hard to believe the response to "men with long guns in/near a bank" is to drive your unarmored vehicle to within 20 feet of the bank building.

 

None of the first-arriving officers were so reckless.  Or shot.  Only the GVERT members sustained injuries.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 July 2022 - 05:31 AM.

[Spy Black]

Except I have a feeling that they did not do their jobs properly here.

Although you and I may phrase things differently, I agree with your observation.

 

I don't see it as "not doing their jobs properly", rather I see it as not having the relevent information such that it would have allowed them to execute a strategy far less risky than the one they (their officer in charge more likely) choose to execute.

 

I do accept that in a quickly evolving situation the information may only be partial, or may be entirely incorrect ... but in agreement with you, I see this as the GVERT responding to a situation they didn't fully understand. 

It may be possible that with the situation as it played out, that information would have never been available to them until they actually saw the long guns with extended clips ... but somewhere in the process that took place is an error in judgement and strategy ... far beyond me to comment on exactly what point the first "wrong" decision might have been made, but with six wounded and two dead, there is definitely a deep dive to be made into the process these officers went through ... in an effort to ensure something similar doesn't happen in the future.

 

None of the above takes away from the bravery demonstrated by the GVERT and SaanichPD, in stark contrast to the malaise (perhaps even cowardice) of the response of the Uvalde, Texas officers who stood 20' away from a guy while he was killing kids for an hour and a half, and did nothing about it ... essentially while they waited for someone to bring them a key to the door.

[pontcanna]

@CTVNewsVI

3m 

UPDATE: Police say they will no longer name the officers injured in the shooting. Police will still provide an update on the officers' condition at 11 a.m.

@CTVNewsVI

59m

Police in Saanich, B.C., are expected to identify the six officers who sustained gunshot wounds in a robbery and shootout with two men outside a bank last week.

 

[Victoria Watcher]

Leadership.

[todd]

Except I have a feeling that they did not do their jobs properly here.
 
I find it hard to believe the response to "men with long guns in/near a bank" is to drive your unarmored vehicle to within 20 feet of the bank building.
 
None of the first-arriving officers were so reckless.  Or shot.  Only the GVERT members sustained injuries.

are you suggesting they need more funding for training?

[Victoria Watcher]

are you suggesting they need more funding for training?

 

I just think they likely made an error here.  On this particular deployment.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 July 2022 - 10:47 AM.

[todd]

I just think they likely made an error here.  On this particular deployment.

isn’t that a sign they lack funding for training?

[Victoria Watcher]

isn’t that a sign they lack funding for training?

 

Not necessarily.   One person likely made the decision to charge into the parking lot.  That was probably an error.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 July 2022 - 10:53 AM.

[todd]

Not necessarily.   One person likely made the decision to charge into the parking lot.  That was probably an error.

I guess all you need is a box set of A-Team reruns.

[Victoria Watcher]

 

S.W.A.T. stars Steve Forrest as the unit's leader, Lt. "Hondo" Harrelson, Robert Urich as Officer Jim Street, Rod Perry as Sgt. David "Deacon" Kay, Mark Shera as Officer Dominic Luca, and James Coleman as Officer T.J. McCabe. 

 

https://en.wikipedia...1975_TV_series)

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 05 July 2022 - 11:09 AM.