25959 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

That being said, perhaps that is the price we pay for social stability and security. Society may be better served my giving someone enough to survive on, rather than that individual having to survive by taking that which does not belong to him or her, or resorting to violence. Yes, we still have theft and crime at the hands of individuals on the lowest rung of the income ladder, but it’s not to the degree that you see in Brazil or SA.

Having experienced a society where people need to take from others just to live I feel that providing a bare minimum may be to our overall benefit, as a society, but there is the potential for abuse and that’s where we should focus our efforts (to combat/minimize it).

[Nparker]

...Society may be better served by giving someone enough to survive on, rather than that individual having to survive by taking that which does not belong to him or her, or resorting to violence...

So Canada's social safety net is basically a form of extortion.

[Midnightly]

That being said, perhaps that is the price we pay for social stability and security. Society may be better served my giving someone enough to survive on, rather than that individual having to survive by taking that which does not belong to him or her, or resorting to violence. Yes, we still have theft and crime at the hands of individuals on the lowest rung of the income ladder, but it’s not to the degree that you see in Brazil or SA.

Having experienced a society where people need to take from others just to live I feel that providing a bare minimum may be to our overall benefit, as a society, but there is the potential for abuse and that’s where we should focus our efforts (to combat/minimize it).

 

 

this might work for someone in a sane clear mindset... but for many who are chronically homeless (the ones who often cause the most damage, theft, crime, mess) tend to have issues (mental, physical, emotional, addiction...) that prevent them from being able to say... budget properly..  this is something that they are now educating kids more about in school (which i think is great)

[Belleprincess]

That being said, perhaps that is the price we pay for social stability and security. Society may be better served my giving someone enough to survive on, rather than that individual having to survive by taking that which does not belong to him or her, or resorting to violence. Yes, we still have theft and crime at the hands of individuals on the lowest rung of the income ladder, but it’s not to the degree that you see in Brazil or SA.

Having experienced a society where people need to take from others just to live I feel that providing a bare minimum may be to our overall benefit, as a society, but there is the potential for abuse and that’s where we should focus our efforts (to combat/minimize it).

I wish there was a better way to weed out more people who abuse the system to give more to those who truly need it

[pennymurphy2000]

I wish there was a better way to weed out more people who abuse the system to give more to those who truly need it

 

There is but no one has the guts to do it. What is wrong with making people register and show ID in order to access the free services? Proof of residency could be established. We are under no obligation to support every single person who just shows up from another province wanting free stuff. We help local people in need first. 

 

Set a time limit on the services of 3 months. After that it gets reviewed. Why aren't they able to support themselves after 3 months?

 

What other interventions do they need? Rehab? Career training? Anger management? Sign them up. Once signed up they get another 3 months of services. Any free service should come with a expectation of some kind of volunteer work as a pay it forward. Everyone can do something to contribute. Sweep a floor, fold some laundry, etc. 

 

After that if they aren't able to support themselves then maybe it is time to look at a bus ticket back to wherever they came from. We simply can not afford to keep going down the same path that we are on now.

[Victoria Watcher]

at least part of that might be against charter. haven’t wait period and other issues been challenged as going against freedom of movement or something.

[pennymurphy2000]

If you move here from another province or country you have a 3 month waiting period before you can receive MSP coverage. You have to show ID and a notice of assessment to get a discounted pass at most rec centres. You need to apply or show proof of income in order to qualify for almost anything in life. You need to show ID to apply for welfare etc. Some countries won't even let you in if you don't have a return ticket or proof that you can support yourself while visiting. We can start with an ID check so we can get an idea where people are coming from at least when it comes to the extras like dental, etc. The charter says you are free to travel wherever you want it doesn't say anywhere that the city you choose has to support you.

[pennymurphy2000]

Wasn't the homeless count again around 1500?

Isn't the same number we had last year and the year before?

Are these 1500 new homeless people?

How many did we house last year?

Cool Aid and the Province keep buying buildings and creating new housing yet the homeless numbers keep rising every year?

Where are they all coming from? 

We have to do something different.

One guy interviewed in the TC said he has been using the services at Our Place for the last 3 years. I am sure he isn't the only one. 

[rmpeers]

Shame that Hammond wasn't successful in his run for mayor. Here was a guy with some actual knowledge/experience on the subject of homelessness. Unfortunately, voters weren't receptive to someone who seemed to have genuine interest in maoing change or making things better. The street scene has visibly detoriated in the past few years; wonder at what point voters will fess up to the fact that it's not working.

In Hammond's case, the fact that he had a perfectly reasonable human reaction to the tent city debacle was weaponized against him.

[Sparky]

Where are they all coming from? 

Mostly from east of here. Very few from the west.

[spanky123]

Wasn't the homeless count again around 1500?

Isn't the same number we had last year and the year before?

Are these 1500 new homeless people?

How many did we house last year?

Cool Aid and the Province keep buying buildings and creating new housing yet the homeless numbers keep rising every year?

Where are they all coming from? 

We have to do something different.

One guy interviewed in the TC said he has been using the services at Our Place for the last 3 years. I am sure he isn't the only one. 

 

Unfortunately the more we offer Our Place clients, the more people we have deciding that it isn't worth working. We have the lowest unemployment rate in the country and the highest rate of people seeking social services. Something is amiss there. You will find few other places where this is the case.

 

I m not trying to compare Canada to Brazil or SA but rather to other developed countries. In Germany, the Nordics or much of Asia/Pacific there is social pressure to contribute to society and work. In Canada it is acceptable to not contribute and ask other people to pay. 

 

I having nothing against helping those who truly need it. The problem is that when the best the Government can do is run a $20B to $30B deficit during the best economic run in decades then we all know what is going to happen when the inevitable cycle correction occurs.

[Victoria Watcher]

how novel.

 

 

 

 

The Abbotsford Police Department may soon look to clamp down on homeless people who are engaged in criminal or harassing behaviour, Chief Mike Serr told council last week.

Serr said the department will remain focused on first trying to help people living on the streets, but that those who break laws and bylaws also need to be held “accountable” for their actions.

“We are always going to be a caring department that is going to try to find them pathways of care and help,” Serr said. But he added: “I think we’ve lacked the enforcement side at times.”

 

https://www.vicnews....ss-lawbreakers/

[Mike K.]

The Hollywood Boulevard “Superman” died trying to pull out clothing from a clothing donation bin.

https://www.latimes....d-in-the-valley

[Victoria Watcher]

An ongoing process to clear the Esplanade Park area in downtown Penticton has resulted in the eviction of campers and the removal of a significant amount of waste.

 

Despite seven hours of work by 12 City of Penticton staff on Monday, Dec. 2, the process to clean up the area is still ongoing and will continue into next week.

 

According to the city, about 1,200 used syringes were also removed from the park area, in addition to couches, makeshift stairs, garbage, mattresses and more.

 

https://www.vicnews....-homeless-camp/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 04 December 2019 - 04:40 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Don Evans has resigned as chief executive officer of Our Place after overseeing a period of rapid expansion at the Victoria drop-in centre, which serves some of the most vulnerable people in the capital region.

 

_________________________________________-

 

 

McKenzie said Evans was travelling outside of the country on Tuesday and unavailable for interviews. But Our Place released excerpts from his resignation letter in which he wrote that he was proud of the agency’s new addiction recovery, employment, education, and health-care services.

 

 

 

 

"excerpts" of his resignation letter?  the whole thing was not worthy of release?

 

https://www.timescol...down-1.24032329

[spanky123]

^Sounds like he resigned by email, effective immediately, while traveling outside of the country.

Perhaps I am not reading between the lines here properly, but it sounds like a much bigger story will eventually be leaked.

Will probably have to wait until the next issue of Focus comes out!

Edited by spanky123, 11 December 2019 - 06:21 AM.

[Midnightly]

^Sounds like he resigned by email, effective immediately, while traveling outside of the country.

Perhaps I am not reading between the lines here properly, but it sounds like a much bigger story will eventually be leaked.

Will probably have to wait until the next issue of Focus comes out!

 

 

i got the same impression from it.. it has the feeling of not a positive separation... forced out or left with very short or no notice, something hit a breaking point... then left town to be unreachable for a comment... i have a feeling there is more to this story that our place doesn't want to give into

[Mike K.]

Our Place and similar agencies are very busy at this time of year soliciting support. It is a peculiar time for the head of the organization to leave.

 

We will know more details soon enough, I'm sure. Evans has deep ties to this community and if the record needs to be set straight, he's got the media's ear.

[Victoria Watcher]

it’s almost as if their spokesperson grant McKenzie went out of his way to say how positive it all is.

[Rob Randall]

There were also cryptic comments about how he'll value the time off, as if he was under stress or something. 

 

I know of a couple of local guys around that age that got the talk from their doctor, basically, quit or die. The lawyer quit his job and is happy and healthy today, the wholesale distributor had a heart attack in bed.

 

So his departure is sudden but not necessarily nefarious. But even if he burned himself out, I think we should know that because they don't want to hire another person just to burn them out too, if the job requirements don't change. 

 

We were caught off guard when Rev. Al and Dean Fortin left their positions.