26023 replies to this topic

[Sparky]

^^ In all fairness they probably couldn't find them all.

[Victoria Watcher]

We’re still waiting for the homelessness report that was due out in March.

 

while it does not take much time to count to 2000 - it can take months to massage those figures.

 

that reminds me.

 

does it tell us anywhere in this report where the 1525 people were each found/counted?  ie. the number from each municipality?

 

https://victoriahome...eport-FINAL.pdf

 

spoiler alert:  it doesn't.

 

i still contend that the city of victoria has more homeless people than anywhere else in canada or the usa. 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 June 2020 - 07:53 AM.

[rmpeers]

Therein lies the problem. Since when is it ok to just live in city parks because one doesn’t want to pay for an appartement? And we owe each of those people free housing? In downtown Victoria?

Because... COVID! Social distancing! Only that rationale doesn't make sense because there are tents clumped together...

[lanforod]

Again, why are we intent on patriating the entire regions homeless?  Where is Saanich in working with people struggling with homelessness in their community?  Have we lost the ability to say, it's not okay to squat on property that isn't yours and that you haven't secured permission to use in that way?

 

I get your point, but if the entire region were amalgamated as one city, the homeless would still mostly be in the same locations as they are now. It wouldn't change much.

[Victoria Watcher]

that’s not true. they are near free food. period. not any other “services or wrap-around supports” other than a place to sleep.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 23 June 2020 - 08:29 AM.

[aastra]

 

“ The campers say they have nowhere else to go and the province’s offer of a downtown shelter isn’t an option. “The scene downtown is hectic, it’s scary. There’s major heavy drug problem on the streets,” said Sabourin. “

So they are in Saanich and have been for years but they should be coming downtown???

 

Again, it's that relentless effort to misrepresent social issues that span the breadth of regions, provinces, and the entire country as if they were inherently & exclusively ultra-urban issues:

 

If you're from a rural area then you need to get yourself downtown;

if you're from a small town then you need to get yourself downtown;

if you're from the suburbs then you need to get yourself downtown;

if the camping lifestyle is your thing then you need to get yourself downtown;

 

The vast majority of these people have no connection whatsoever to the downtown cores of large cities. They would be fish out of water even in the best of situations. Yet that's where our supposedly loving and informed authorities want to concentrate them, in that handful of extremely urban environments where they would be least comfortable. On a map of BC these areas would literally be pinpoints.

 

When you consider how many of these individuals have expressed through their habits their strong inclination for camping, should we not be baffled that there still hasn't been any official effort to facilitate camping in a locale that would be suitable for such? Again, the forests and fields of UVic would seem to be a perfect suburban site, as would Mt. Doug Park, as would literally countless sites further afield, all over the province and all over the country.

 

Just consider the lunacy: if you want to live the urban life in a downtown apartment, the authorities will do absolutely everything to make your opportunities scarce and expensive. But if you want to live the camping life on the fringes of society, the authorities will do absolutely everything to redirect you downtown.

 

We should also note this is the umpteenth time we've seen somebody in a mainstream news story quoted as saying they want nothing to do with the mess the authorities have created downtown because it's too dangerous (over the years we've seen every concern expressed: hygiene, drugs, gangs, crime of all types, assault, sexual assault... and yet some ignorant people are still applauding this systematic exploitation. Hey, they say we need more of it!)

[Nparker]

...The vast majority of these people have no connection whatsoever to the downtown cores of large cities. They would be fish out of water even in the best of situations. Yet that's where our supposedly loving and informed authorities want to concentrate them, in that handful of extremely urban environments where they would be least comfortable...

This. 

[aastra]

Also, when we clang our pots and pans in celebration of our loving authorities and their overwhelming concern for public health and safety, have we forgotten yet again what we've already been through?

 

 

The former tent city site on the Victoria courthouse lawn is more rat-infested than first thought, meaning the pest-control process will continue until eradication is complete.

“The exact number of rodents cannot be confirmed,” said a statement Tuesday from the B.C. Ministry of Technology, Innovation and Citizens’ Services, which is managing the cleanup and restoration of the site.

“Pest-control activities were estimated to take approximately two weeks; however, these efforts will continue until the pests are completely eradicated. Monitoring is occurring on a daily basis.”

Vancouver Sun - August 31, 2016

 

And:

 

 

...the province is finally moving to do some remediation work on the lawn of the city’s courthouse.

The lawn, where tents and permanent structures were pitched, was heavily damaged during the encampment...

The remediation work will remove a 1.5-foot layer of contaminated soil to make the area safe for the public again.

The testing of soil samples from the site found the presence of residual contaminants, including lead, gasoline, diesel and trace amounts of methamphetamine.

The layer of contaminated soil will be removed by truck and replaced with new top soil.

Global News - January 13, 2017

[aastra]

Many times I've observed that it would be refreshing to see some legitimate innovation. You know, like enabling people who want to camp to be able to camp in locations that are suitable for camping.

[James Bay walker]

Remember the COST to restore the homeless campsite by the courthouse once they were moved out? (biblical quote) 'there will always be the poor' This is a bottomless pit we're dealing with. Make it too inviting and comfortable and Victoria will be the focal point of our whole country's hobos, street beggars and suchlike, magnifying our current homeless population by 50-fold or more. jbw

[Nparker]

Make it too inviting and comfortable and Victoria will be the focal point of our whole country's hobos, street beggars and suchlike

Will be? It seems it already is.

[Lost password]

So the powers that be say its offensive to relieve tensions in the Emergency Wards by playing the so called Wheel of Fortune game. Wow..they even appointed a racially identified person to conduct an investigation, that seems to exclude non indegious folks..hohum.

 

I suggest a new game Wheel of Firetune. Yes 4 fires in the old Ramada recently renamed the Comfort Inn.

 

Name a date that the ignornant Purveyors of Poverty will see a total burndown, hopefully with no deaths or injuries of their sheep..oh those free drugs must be life saveing Meds..

 

I am betting July 1!

[RFS]

One week everyone's banging on pots and pans in your honour, next week you're a RAYCIS!!!!!! That's life 

[Victoria Watcher]

to be fair it’s the price is right game.

[spanky123]

Many times I've observed that it would be refreshing to see some legitimate innovation. You know, like enabling people who want to camp to be able to camp in locations that are suitable for camping.

 

If they are in the burbs then they are out of site. The whole purpose of congregating the homeless in high profile areas is to use them as props to get more money for social service organizations. 

 

On a side note, I have noticed that the whole Pandora St ex-camping area remains fenced off with weeds now growing 2 ft high in many areas. Is this our latest biohazard area that now requires a million dollar remediation?

[aastra]

For sure, that was part of my point re: the effort to misrepresent these issues as being ultra-urban. Without the artificial concentration and resulting exaggerated visibility in the city centres it would be much more difficult to justify the funding and much less convenient to play out the political theatre.

 

The camping thing should be so obvious to people. Urban camping is a non sequitur. We have more than enough examples and more than enough experience to confirm that it absolutely does not work. It's a disaster every time, for the health and welfare of the campers, and for the health and welfare of the surrounding community. It also destroys the urban camping sites themselves, as we saw with the courthouse property. Parks and lawns and boulevards in the city are not campgrounds. They cannot work as campgrounds. Do we really need to state it so plainly?

 

And yet many of the individuals have a strong inclination to camp. That's how they prefer to live. It's irresistible for some of them.

 

What to do, what to do... Hey, maybe try facilitating camping in a suitable location that has suitable accommodation for camping? You know, to significantly improve literally every aspect of the camping lifestyle?

 

But aastra! If that approach were successful then many of the motel rooms would be unnecessary! Many of the services would need to be relocated! Awesome, so sell off whatever urban properties you can for big profit and roll the money back into helping the people.

 

But aastra! That would mean the crusaders and administrators and news crews would need to schlepp their way out to the boondocks occasionally, just to make it look like they actually care!

 

Seriously, every time you talk about this stuff somebody will fall back on the premise that administrative convenience and sustaining the established narratives should be the main priorities. Hence, the issues are still being shaped to fit administrative convenience, rather than tailoring the administration to respond to the issues.

[Nparker]

 

Without the artificial concentration and resulting exaggerated visibility in the city centres it would be much more difficult to justify the funding and much less convenient to play out the political theatre.

And this is why the powers that be will undoubtedly continue to let it happen.

[aastra]

Just to put an exclamation mark on how inhumane it can be to funnel troubled people from far and wide deep into extremely urban environments:

 

 

Daily Colonist/The Victoria Express Weekend Edition
May 18, 1974

Psychiatric care just child's play

Mark is a six-year-old boy living with his parents on the eighth floor of a James Bay apartment building.

He's a healthy six-year-old...

He also makes weekly visits to a psychiatrist.

...Mark's problem is complex and mainly manifested in aggressive behavior...

At the urging of the psychiatrist, Mark and his parents are moving to a house June 1.

...Mark shares a common problem with all children who live in apartments -- he has no backyard to call his own.

It may not sound like much, but to a developing child having some place of his own is just as important as being fed nutritious meals...

When the territory isn't there, a child may try to establish it in other places... in the classroom at school, on the school playground and in his dealings with other children.

Children are not alone in their problems of coping with apartment living.

Although apartment-dwellers aren't the only ones sitting in psychiatrists' waiting rooms, the isolation, loneliness and feelings of not belonging are common phenomena.

The quest for "minimum-involvement housing" has left people without traditional rural roots, without a strong sense of "home" and with a feeling of transience and insecurity...

Especially for people moving from a rural area to an urban centre, the shock of adjustment can be just too much.

 

It might seem silly but some people just aren't cut out for city living. They're like fish out of water. And yet we mercilessly try to draw every homeless individual, every addicted person, every mentally ill person to the downtown streets of our largest cities. And then we praise ourselves for our noble efforts to put them into motel rooms or to facilitate their camping in city parks and other public spaces.

[Awaiting Juno]

Just to put an exclamation mark on how inhumane it can be to funnel troubled people from far and wide deep into extremely urban environments:

 

 

It might seem silly but some people just aren't cut out for city living. They're like fish out of water. And yet we mercilessly try to draw every homeless individual, every addicted person, every mentally ill person to the downtown streets of our largest cities. And then we praise ourselves for our noble efforts to put them into motel rooms or to facilitate their camping in city parks and other public spaces.

 

A small community lacks the ability to be anonymous, many of the "wrap around supports" needed in urban environments might be part of the general package of living in a more rural area.  I think that there's an absorptive capacity for a community to best help it's least advantaged, and that when that capacity is over-burdened, nobody is served well.  I think in Victoria we've far exceeded our ability to really help the most vulnerable and that the risk of chronic homelessness and poverty is far higher here than it might be in many other communities.  It might be far better to be looking at smaller communities throughout the province to build enough capacity to cope - and it might mean helping some people to relocate.  If we're willing to help people from other countries relocate because living in their home country is not sustainable, why are we so averse to helping Canadians relocate within Canada when where they've chosen to live is not sustainable??  

[Nparker]

...If we're willing to help people from other countries relocate because living in their home country is not sustainable, why are we so averse to helping Canadians relocate within Canada when where they've chosen to live is not sustainable??  

That's an interesting take on the situation.