1682 replies to this topic

[aastra]

I'm a huge fan of the smaller neighbourhood-sized grocery stores, for sure. They would always be my first choice over a big chain supermarket.

[Vin]

 

Victoria city council has approved a development permit for nearly 300 units of housing in two new towers at Dockside Green.

 

Council was unanimous in moving the two residential towers forward for the corner of Tyee and Esquimalt roads, though some councillors bemoaned the lack of commercial space in the plans.

 

“I do think that there was a big missed opportunity here for mixed-use,” said Coun. Jeremy Caradonna, noting the master development agreement signed for the Dockside Green project did not require much commercial space.

 

“My concern is, and probably will remain for a while, that we are building a condo dead zone in Vic West, where there’s a lot of people living there, but it still feels like a ghost town.”

 

Caradonna said he understands future phases of the Dockside neighbourhood will contain more commercial space, which he said would better connect the project to downtown.

 

Coun. Matt Dell echoed the concerns, noting there’s going to be a lot of people living in the area and in 20 or 30 years it will be a very dense and vibrant neighbourhood.

 

“And we’re going to want to have a lot of commercial, restaurants, cafés to support that,” he said.

 

 

 

https://www.timescol...n-light-7525386

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think more and more condo-dwellers just order up Skip.

 

https://www.theglobe...ure-of-transit/

 

 

 

 

On most weekend nights, the last commuter trains out of Toronto are packed with the delivery riders and their bikes, heading home to the suburbs.

 

This is a new kind of commuter for Ontario’s GO Transit, which has lost many of its traditional office-bound passengers since the pandemic began. Instead of welcoming the e-bike brigade, agency staff sometimes choose to hassle them by strictly enforcing the limit of two bikes per train car.

 

There’s no doubt that these bikes are bulky and could pose a problem if they blocked train doors. But the callous treatment of couriers is at odds with the welcome mat GO rolls out for touring cyclists, who can take the train to wine country with their bikes riding in a specially adapted car full of racks.

 

Beyond poor manners, the crackdown on e-bikes speaks to a larger failure of GO Transit to imagine the future of commuting. An agency that has long assumed its passengers would drive to the station should be encouraging people who arrive by bike, including by letting them bring their wheels on board. Why doesn’t every GO train include a special car equipped to carry bikes?

 

In response to social media reports that some riders were stranded at Toronto’s downtown station overnight after being prohibited from boarding, the agency did say it was working to provide more on-board bike options. Good news, but this shouldn’t have taken a PR black eye.

 

 

 

 

 

 

‘There are too many bikes’: A sharp rise in the number of food couriers commuting into Toronto’s core has left GO Transit struggling — and the workers scrambling

 

https://www.thestar....5868409bac.html

 

I fully agree with the two councilor's concern about the lack of commercial space for the two approved buildings at Tyee/Esquimalt, especially since it essentially breaks the continuity of commercial/retail from the Johnson bridge neighbourhood and downtown Victoria to the future Roundhouse community further inland. To be successful as a vibrant community, there should be commercial or retail synergy in the area. Otherwise the much anticipated Roundhouse community will become a dead zone where the public would not bother going.

[aastra]

 

...a dead zone where the public would not bother going.

 

But is that true? I was a big doubter when people were claiming the new and improved JSB would encourage flow of people just 'cuz it was new and improved, but to some degree this has indeed happened. And things like the new marina & restaurant, the newer Songhees buildings, and the (extremely) gradual filling out of Dockside Green have all been part of it. I'm not disagreeing that a strong & continuous commercial area has the potential to be the biggest kind of draw, but strong & continuous commercial areas aren't easy to create from scratch, and Victoria seems to have an overload of empty commercial spaces as it is.

 

So I guess I'm admitting that an attractive residential area with decent public walkways and the occasional point of interest won't ever be as big a draw as a vibrant commercial area, but it will nevertheless be a much bigger draw than parking lots and empty lots. And attractive residential areas with decent walkways aren't challenging to create from scratch, because they don't involve the same kind of uncertainty that commercial developments seem to involve these days.

[Nparker]

...Victoria seems to have an overload of empty commercial spaces as it is....

Indeed it does; something members of CoV council are either too foolish or too blind to see.

[boomboombarrie]

Save Ons is very busy, a second grocery store would be great.

Won’t there be a large commercial component further east on Esq at Harbour?

Yea, Bosa has indicated Phase 3 (located at Esq and Harbour) is the commercial component of the development and they are aiming for a Red Barn or Root Cellar sized commerical tenant. I think something that size (and niche) could do well even with Save on up the road. 

 

The Dev Permit approved is Phase 2 btw. 

[Mike K.]

I'm a huge fan of the smaller neighbourhood-sized grocery stores, for sure. They would always be my first choice over a big chain supermarket.

What if the smaller grocery store is part of a big chain?

[aastra]

I wouldn't necessarily care about the corporate structure but rather whether or not it was a decent grocery store.

[aastra]

No offense to fans of the big chain stores.

[Vin]

But is that true? I was a big doubter when people were claiming the new and improved JSB would encourage flow of people just 'cuz it was new and improved, but to some degree this has indeed happened. And things like the new marina & restaurant, the newer Songhees buildings, and the (extremely) gradual filling out of Dockside Green have all been part of it. I'm not disagreeing that a strong & continuous commercial area has the potential to be the biggest kind of draw, but strong & continuous commercial areas aren't easy to create from scratch, and Victoria seems to have an overload of empty commercial spaces as it is.

 

So I guess I'm admitting that an attractive residential area with decent public walkways and the occasional point of interest won't ever be as big a draw as a vibrant commercial area, but it will nevertheless be a much bigger draw than parking lots and empty lots. And attractive residential areas with decent walkways aren't challenging to create from scratch, because they don't involve the same kind of uncertainty that commercial developments seem to involve these days.

 

I feel that there is currently a glut of retail/commercial spaces only because of what Covid lockdown brought about, as well as the sense of disorderliness in the downtown core. Retail was doing very well pre-Covid and I believe that can be brought back to this fair city, and once City Hall decides to do something about the self-inflicted mess. Once the development is all-residential, it will be pretty hard to turn it into retail/commercial in the future. We need more of that in the downtown core, especially along major thoroughfares where people can easily get to.

[Nparker]

...Retail was doing very well pre-Covid....

I am not sure this is entirely true. Hudson Walk was completed in 2016 but has any of its commercial component ever leased? 1008 Pandora (the St. Andrew's school redevelopment) opened in the summer of 2019 and still mostly struggles to fill its streetfront retail spaces, even with a significant anchor tenant like Save-on-Foods as well as several hundred residents living directly above those empty spaces.

Furthermore, as long as a major employer, like the BC government, continues to promote work from home, a significant portion of those who once supported local retail will simply not be there.

Add to this the ever expanding factor of e-commerce and I remain unconvinced that additional retail space is essential in and around downtown Victoria.

[MarkoJ]

Re-sale https://www.realtor....a-victoria-west

[Mike K.]

What was it purchased for?

[LJ]

What was it purchased for?

It was purchased for accommodation.

[downtownlurker]

$1,144 sq/ft seems... like a lot?

[dkuitu]

$1,144 sq/ft seems... like a lot?

 

everything seems like a lot in 2023.

[downtownlurker]

Few more hitting the market:

 

For sale: 605 369 Tyee Rd, Victoria, British Columbia V9A0B6 - 944114 | REALTOR.ca

 

For sale: 205 369 Tyee Rd, Victoria, British Columbia V9A0B6 - 943828 | REALTOR.ca

[MarkoJ]

Going to be quite a few more units hitting the market....difficult for investors to make the numbers work on rental units at these interest rates. 

[Victoria Watcher]

Going to be quite a few more units hitting the market....difficult for investors to make the numbers work on rental units at these interest rates. 

 

This is true, if you insist on your investment being cash-flow positive each month.

 

But surely some (many?) investors look longer term and do not mind pitching in $300 or $800/mo. as their equity builds and their investment rises in value, no?

 

So for example, if you "lose" $500/mo. on the investment, that's $6,000 per year. Surely, historically, an investment of this size ($500,000 or more) always has outpaced that for annual value growth, no?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 September 2023 - 03:55 AM.

[MarkoJ]

This is true, if you insist on your investment being cash-flow positive each month.

 

But surely some (many?) investors look longer term and do not mind pitching in $300 or $800/mo. as their equity builds and their investment rises in value, no?

 

I am going to be probably close to $600 per month cash flow negative on my Dockside unit but I am keeping it long term. Great concrete building, an amazing area that it only become more attractive as it is built out, rents will go up over time, my mortgage will go down over time. I look at a 20-25 year time horizon. 

 

Unfortunately a lot of what I like to call amateur investors don't and tend to panic and sell at the worst possible time. 

[Victoria Watcher]

I am going to be probably close to $600 per month cash flow negative on my Dockside unit but I am keeping it long term. Great concrete building, an amazing area that it only become more attractive as it is built out, rents will go up over time, my mortgage will go down over time. I look at a 20-25 year time horizon. 

 

Unfortunately a lot of what I like to call amateur investors don't and tend to panic and sell at the worst possible time. 

 

Yes, different risk tolerances I guess.

 

Golly, if every business investment was expected to be cash-flow positive or profitable from day one, we'd have no industry or innovation.  Nearly no new businesses at all.

 

Now of course some small investors simply might not have that $500 or $600 without it causing them harm or crimping their discretionary spending.  Maybe they should not be in this type of investment though.

 

Great concrete building, an amazing area that it only become more attractive as it is built out, rents will go up over time, my mortgage will go down over time. 

 

 

I agree, Marko, it's hard for me to see any downside at all of this area.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 September 2023 - 04:16 AM.