545 replies to this topic

[phx]

Going by appearances, I'm not seeing much heritage value there. I don't think they ever were architecturally significant, and are now useless and worthless from a commercial point of view.

I'm more selective in what I consider worth preserving; just being old isn't sufficient.

[Holden West]

Yes, great photos. Gives you a real sense of the possibilities there. Interesting that Merrick is the architect for this.

No-one seems to know the exact age of the buildings--1860s is the consensus. Let's say they were around in 1865 or 1866:

Lewis Carroll publishes Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
US Civil War ends, Lincoln assassinated.
Birth of King George V of the United Kingdom (d. 1936)
The Canadian Parliament meets for the first time in Ottawa.
Butch Cassidy, American outlaw born (d. 1909)

Going by appearances, I'm not seeing much heritage value there. I don't think they ever were architecturally significant, and are now useless and worthless from a commercial point of view.

Heritage is in the eye of the beholder. True, they have little architectural value, in that they're simple storehouses, not anything fancy or cutting edge architecturally. The historical connection to the HSC trading operation is significant. But "useless and worthless"? Have you ever been in the Canoe Club? You can't tell me the age of that building adds nothing to the value of your experience; that you'd be just as happy if Canoe were in the Value Village building?

[Bingo]

What happened to the Janion debate? The original thread was closed and moved to this thread, but the existing posts were not moved.

[Jacques Cadé]

Clara Kramer's Sky Blue Properties has applied to the City of Victoria for a permit to demolish the Janion Hotel, according to a new report posted here.

According to the report, the demolition permit is being withheld until redevelopment permits have been issued.

[aastra]

That would make for some prime parking, for sure.

Makes me sick.

You know, despite the gutting that Store Street has endured over the decades, it's still just a few strokes away from being a really terrific "old town" street.

[Jacques Cadé]

Item is listed as New Business for tonight's City of Victoria council meeting. If anyone goes, I'd love to hear a report.

[Rob Randall]

Nice Photoshop, aastra.

I don't understand how you can have a demolition permit and a redevelopment permit.

[Bingo]

Clara Kramer's Sky Blue Properties has applied to the City of Victoria for a permit to demolish the Janion Hotel, according to a new report posted here.

According to the report, the demolition permit is being withheld until redevelopment permits have been issued.

Could it be that the Janion is a seismic risk, and will be demolished to prevent it falling on the approach to the new bridge during an earthquake?

Another heritage loss to OLD TOWN it will be, but like the Blue Bridge, it doesn't have a heritage designation.

[Ms. B. Havin]

I don't understand how you can have a demolition permit and a redevelopment permit.

Nor can I.

Anyone?

[Fairbanks]

Noticed yesterday that that the two small bldbs south of the Johnson Bridge have been sold. Cant speak about the hotel tho.

[Sparky]

I don't understand how you can have a demolition permit and a redevelopment permit.

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that this procedure provides options to the City other than a parking lot.

In other words, the developer needs to provide the proposed new development plans which may or may not include the demolision of the existing structure. This way if the City is not in favour of the proposed development, the existing structure is still something that COULD be incorporated in a future proposal.

The Eaton's centre might be an example of where this may have been advantagous, as some of the facades of the existing structures were preserved before demolision because they were required to be incorporated into the new development.

[Mike K.]

Noticed yesterday that that the two small bldbs south of the Johnson Bridge have been sold. Cant speak about the hotel tho.

This would be the Northern Junk complex.

[Bingo]

In other words, the developer needs to provide the proposed new development plans which may or may not include the demolision of the existing structure. This way if the City is not in favour of the proposed development, the existing structure is still something that COULD be incorporated in a future proposal.

The Eaton's centre might be an example of where this may have been advantagous, as some of the facades of the existing structures were preserved before demolision because they were required to be incorporated into the new development.

It is my recollection that none of the original facades, such as the old Times building facing south down Broad Street were preserved, they are all reasonable replicas.

[Holden West]

^Using some of the original bricks which definitely stretches the definition of preservation and restoration of heritage.

Now, as it applies to the NJ buildings, I think I heard something about the mortar reacting poorly to a century and a half of salt air which makes you wonder how difficult it will be to keep the buildings reasonably intact without resorting to Eaton Centre-style reconstruction.

[Sparky]

^^ Geezus, you appear to be correct about the facades on the Eaton's Centre. All this time I thought that some of the original facades were reused. I had better go have a closer look.

From Focus online

"In the face of increasing pressure, Cadillac Fairview agreed to reconstruct the façades of the buildings concerned. These included David Spencer’s Arcade Building as well as the Kresge Building, Victoria Theatre, Driard Hotel, R. Lettice Painters, Goodman and Jordan Piano Makers, Winch Building, and the Times Building. By Christmas 1986, the City had given its blessing to the $1 million development, and the aforementioned buildings disappeared in a huge pile of rubble. When it was cleared, the new structure reigned supreme. However, promises to reconstruct façades using original materials were not fulfilled, because the old bricks did not meet newer building code standards. Instead frontages were replicated with new brick façades. “Faux history” was here to stay. [...]

http://www.focusonline.ca/?q=node/180

[Holden West]

Pardon the off topic:

Before:


Link: http://www.flickr.co...@N00/2776220513

After:



I doubt the Northern Junk buildings will have to be deconstructed. But they will need major strengthening.

[aastra]

I don't care what anyone says, if the option is losing a great building forever then I'll take a very good replica (or partial replica, as in the case of the Driard's facade) any day of the week. It's a beauty. The replicas of the Times and the little building across from it don't seem to be as good as the Driard, but the Times is still pretty good.

I wish they had preserved/restored the real facades of the Driard and the Times and one or two of the other buildings but having the replicas eases a lot of the pain. My main beef with the replicas are the windows that aren't really windows.

[Bernard]

20 years on and I think it is fairly safe to say the Eatons's Centre, now Bay Centre, has not been beneficial for downtown. The closure of Broad Street has severely cut off the natural flow north and south for much of downtown.

[Nparker]

20 years on and I think it is fairly safe to say the Eatons's Centre, now Bay Centre, has not been beneficial for downtown.

I think many might argue just the opposite that it revitalized a section of downtown that might otherwise have fallen on even harder times.

[aastra]

If the new mall hadn't been built then the Bay store would have stayed put when Eaton's went under. An abandoned Bay building was an awful thing, but two abandoned blocks in the heart of the old town/tourist district would have been significantly worse.

I don't have a major problem with the Eaton's Centre. It's too faux in places and I wish they had turned Broad Street into a glassy atrium and actually preserved/restored some of the facades instead of replicating them, but otherwise I'd say it's been a much bigger boon to downtown than a detriment. The big angst back in the late 1980s was how downtown was losing out to the "suburban" shopping malls (Mayfair and Hillside, that is, owing to the expansions/renovations that they had both recently undertaken). The new mall downtown was like a shot in the arm. It was a big deal for teens and 20-somethings. Although today it's just a mall and not really anything special.