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Victoria Rapid Transit Project - CRD/BC Transit - Light Rail (LRT) has been recommended


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#1261 Danma

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:04 AM

Here's a video showing the Waterloo/Kitchener service in action:

 

A couple notes:

1. The vehicle itself isn't much different from a bus. What makes it valuable is the dedicated ROW which allows it to move quickly around town. I love the idea of trains but having dedicated throughfares is what makes it truly valuable.
2. On the other hand, there's a 'je ne sais quoi` about rail that I've always loved... :) 

3. The stations and interface are very clear and straightforward, with tickets etc.

4.The service runs through what must have been old rail ROWs, but also suburban side streets, or taking what would be a dedicated bus lane here in Victoria. The willingness of W/K to implement this seriously is good. The embedded track means that you can also have modal share on the same roads. Toronto's streetcars do this, and LRT in cities like Salt Lake also do this...

https://www.youtube....h?v=Nfx8sGHpb0M



#1262 Danma

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:05 AM

This part I love and I think some sort of hybrid device that can then go on to the roadway would be great.  I still think the tracks limit what can be done.  Still see this as a bus route into town in the mornings and out during the after work rush. 

 

Yeah. I mentioned it above in my points, but it needs to be hammered on a bit: Dedicated ROW and the ability to traverse across town quickly and reliably is what makes it valuable, not the fact that it's on rails!


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#1263 Danma

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:10 AM

there is absolutely no good case to be made today for embarking on a new project that runs on rails.  rails will be absolutely obsolete in just 10-15 years at the most.  automated vehicles on a dedicated busway then just the street/highway itself is the very near future.

 

While I think automated vehicles have promise, I don't think rail has run its course reached the end of the line. (edit: more rail references!)


Edited by Danma, 17 October 2019 - 10:12 AM.


#1264 shoeflack

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:11 AM

We must be talking about different things in Seattle then.  I'm talking about the rail system that runs from the University of Washington (north terminus*) south to Sea-Tac.  The north end of that - everything north of Pioneer Square - is entirely underground.  I'm not sure how far south the underground part extends beyond Pioneer Sq., as that's as far as I rode it.

 

* - until they finish the next station northwest of the campus, it's under construction now.

 

Once you’re out of the transit tunnel you’re mostly at grade. Back when I last rode it the transit tunnel was the northern terminus.

 

You guys are talking about the same thing. I took the Red Line map and added yellow to represent the at-grade parts of the line (at-grade being the parts that run alongside traffic, though keep it mind that it has signal priority at ever intersection along the at-grade part of the line.

 

Link_light_rail,_route_map.jpg


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#1265 Ismo07

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:12 AM

Yeah. I mentioned it above in my points, but it needs to be hammered on a bit: Dedicated ROW and the ability to traverse across town quickly and reliably is what makes it valuable, not the fact that it's on rails!

I agree the dedicate ROW is so important.  What gets me as maybe they don't need to be dedicated all the times both ways.  I'd like to see some flexibility.


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#1266 Mike K.

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:34 AM

Thanks for that, shoe.

 

One thing I recall from the Seattle system is that once you get beyond the river it's a looooong stretch of nothingness with the two stations remaining. It's actually quite high up in the Tukwila/Seatac portions.


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#1267 vortoozo

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:38 AM

there is absolutely no good case to be made today for embarking on a new project that runs on rails.

 

Hamilton is working on LRT as well.



#1268 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:41 AM

Hamilton is working on LRT as well.

 

i should probably clarify a bit.  i mean for our case.  in terms of setting up an automated rubber-tire system i can't think of much easier than our colwood corners or 6-mile to uptown or even downtown run.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 October 2019 - 11:42 AM.


#1269 FogPub

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 02:14 PM

i should probably clarify a bit.  i mean for our case.  in terms of setting up an automated rubber-tire system i can't think of much easier than our colwood corners or 6-mile to uptown or even downtown run.

Whatever it ends up being, the basic design needs to start as a big + shape; north-south from downtown to the airport and ferry dock; east-west from Langford to UVic, with the meeting point somewhere around Uptown.



#1270 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 02:33 PM

how about we start with this for the ferry.

 

3 express buses that head straight to the ferry from each of:

  • langford exchange (with one stop at colwood corners for pick-up only)
  • uvic (with one stop at mckenzie/quadra for pick-up only)
  • downtown (with one stop at uptown for pick-up only)

(one of these can also stop at Mt. Newton - either the one that's leading or the one that's least busy it can be flexible on the way out and pick-up only - fixed on the way back)

 

then leaving the ferry (waiting for passengers if the ferry is late) we have the same going back.

 

that's a real step to modernizing the transport of people to the terminal and really will take "drop-off cars" off pat bay.  if you know a bus is waiting for you and you'll get on it (with a seat) and it'll take you more or less right to colwood/langford why would you make aunt emma from metchosin pick you up at swartz bay?  everybody has a phone now it's easy to call aunt emma and tell her when you are getting close to mckenzie/admirals and now it's time for her to go meet you in langford. 


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 October 2019 - 02:44 PM.

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#1271 vortoozo

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 03:37 PM

I don't think it makes sense to prioritize ferry service over daily commuters in terms of improvements to the system.

 

Much of what you've proposed already exsits. UVic express busses to the ferry at peak times. Downtown express with limited stops that waits for short ferry delays.

There's no Langford bus but an easy enough connection at Uptown that doesn't add too much time between the 70 & 50. Or at Mackenzie to the 51 at peak times.


Edited by vortoozo, 17 October 2019 - 03:39 PM.

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#1272 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 04:20 PM

there's nothing express about any bus that goes to the ferry now.



#1273 Cats4Hire

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 04:26 PM

there's nothing express about any bus that goes to the ferry now.

76 on Friday doesn't make any stops between Uvic and Swartz Bay (https://www.bctransi...erview?route=76)

 

On Sunday (or Monday if it's a holiday) it only stops at Royal Oak, McKenzie/Quadra, Shellbourne. 



#1274 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 04:39 PM

76 on Friday doesn't make any stops between Uvic and Swartz Bay (https://www.bctransi...erview?route=76)

 

On Sunday (or Monday if it's a holiday) it only stops at Royal Oak, McKenzie/Quadra, Shellbourne. 

 

ya it's only 2 buses a week out and 3 in though.  and why it has to stop at shelbourne is beyond me.

 

but that's good it's up from just one bus a few years ago. ok great so they have found a market.  they have discovered that some uvic students will go straight from class to vancouver on friday afternoons.  but now let's look at every sailing and the hundreds of walk-ons on each that do not park at the terminal.   that are dropped off and picked up.  and see if we can make the trip easier faster and more predictable for them.  so the bus becomes routine.

 

with the mckenzie exchange in at least let's look at an express from west shore and see what happens.  that's not competing with wilson's.  


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 October 2019 - 04:47 PM.


#1275 Cats4Hire

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 05:01 PM

and why it has to stop at shelbourne is beyond me.

 

my guess is to allow UVic students that live in Gordon Head to transfer without having to get off at Royal Oak, transfer to a 39 (runs once an hour on Sunday) then to a 27/28. 



#1276 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 05:06 PM

ya i get the idea.  students leave friday right from school but don't want to be back at the uvic campus sunday night if they live in the community.

 

also these express buses should be dressed right up to show they are express buses.  striking colour scheme so they are a rolling a ad for the great new service.

 

42f3da26e97576ff91b99899b6b5bd79.jpg

 

pl12704388-equivalent_to_cobus3000_airpo

 

pl12920166-airport_electric_seats_passen

 

maxresdefault.jpg


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 October 2019 - 05:12 PM.

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#1277 Mike K.

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:15 PM

Lol...


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#1278 FogPub

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:57 PM

I don't think it makes sense to prioritize ferry service over daily commuters in terms of improvements to the system.

This is why whatever goes in for the ferries also has to stop at other key places - Sidney, the airport, Saanichton, Royal Oak, Uptown/Saanich Hall - and run much more often than once per ferry sailing.

 

Then it can take some commuter traffic, airport traffic (which represents a surprising amount of what's on the Pat Bay sometimes), tourist traffic, and yes, ferry traffic.

 

But those places aren't connected by high-speed non-stop roads, which means a rubber-tire system of any kind simply won't be efficient/fast enough to make it worth anyone's while.



#1279 GaryOak

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:23 PM

the biggest thing would be dedicated bus lanes up and down the pat bay

#1280 FogPub

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:23 PM

the biggest thing would be dedicated bus lanes up and down the pat bay

Other than helping bypass some congestion at traffic lights (which one day will all become interchanges anyway, one would hope) this wouldn't make much difference; as most of the slowdown in any rubber-tire setup would come from trying to service places not on the highway itself e.g. Keating, Saanichton, and the airport.



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