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Turnberry
Use: subdivision
Address: Champions Court at Bear Mountain Parkway
Municipality: Langford
Region: West Shore
Sales status: sold out / resales only
Turnberry is a two phase, 51 home subdivision at the Bear Mountain development in the municipality of Langford... (view full profile)
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[Langford + Highlands] Bear Mountain | 4,000 homes | U/C


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#81 aastra

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 11:55 AM

As usual, I'm confused about this cave issue. Is this the same cave that was in the original pictures shown on CHEK TV many months ago? That cave seemed like something out of a spelunker's wildest dreams. A really special geological feature. But then more recently still we saw considerably less impressive -- although still interesting -- pictures in a Vancouver newspaper and also on Ross Crockford's blog.

So which cave are they destroying now and, if it was so unique, why is nobody doing anything about it? What's the real deal here?

Natives' 'sacred' cave destroyed
Developers at Bear Mountain committing cultural genocide, aboriginal leaders charge
Published: Thursday, November 16, 2006
Louise Dickson and Bill Cleverley, with files from Jeff Rud, Times Colonist

The provincial government and Bear Mountain developers are committing cultural genocide by destroying a cave on Skirt Mountain that is sacred to aboriginal people, the land manager of the Songhees First Nation charged yesterday.

As dump trucks roared in the background, Cheryl Bryce stood at the cave entrance, now clogged with tree stumps. A subterranean lake has been drained and filled with tires. Natural vegetation has been scraped off the top of the cave.

[...]



#82 Mike K.

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 12:00 PM

I think we need to hear more about or more from the Aboriginal representatives who were supposedly paid to be on-site during geological work and excavation.

According to that article they weren't around when the work was being conducted, but they were required to be there. So what's really going on?

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#83 aastra

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 06:24 PM

Tonight CHEK showed us the location of the cave entrance on a model of Bear Mountain. Apparently the cave isn't far from the artificial lake. You know, the one ringed with highrise buildings (not yet built, of course).

Which leads me to ask, just how many highrise buildings are they planning to build out there??

#84 gumgum

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 12:57 AM

There was an article in the TC today about Bowel Movement.

Aboriginal showdown? Caves? I'd post it but I'm assuming it's locked
Can someone post it?

#85 obscurantist

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 06:18 PM

Here's the article -- you don't need a subscription to read it.

[url=http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=ff3d0e6b-f182-4218-92be-663198c1e7ff:2822c]At a meeting in the Tsartlip longhouse yesterday, Bear Mountain Resort CEO Len Barrie promised local chiefs and Aboriginal Relations Minister Mike de Jong that construction will be stopped for the next two weeks within 100 metres of a cave sacred to local First Nations.[/url:2822c]

...the development group will not proceed with an application for a court injunction, filed yesterday morning against a small group of First Nations protesters who had been occupying the cave site since early Thursday morning.

The application was adjourned until Nov. 30.

But the lawyers agreed either side can renew the application for an injunction on two-days notice if any protesters show up after tomorrow or work resumes.

[...]



#86 Mike K.

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 06:27 PM

John Alexander, the lawyer representing Bear Mountain, was the lawyer hired to try and squash the Falls on behalf of the owners of the Budget lot.

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#87 obscurantist

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:31 PM

Yeah, he works for a variety of clients on matters related to urban development. He often represents developers suing municipalities, and in one case he represented a government official who was being sued for abuse of office.

As far as I know, he doesn't represent local governments themselves, but there's at least one Victoria law firm that specializes in doing that.

#88 obscurantist

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 11:33 PM

(double post)

#89 Baro

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 10:43 AM

After seeing that... fellow in action, I can't say that I fully enjoy him, perhaps not even partially.
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#90 Mike K.

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 09:02 AM

So, as mentioned by hungryryno, the Hannington Rd/Troon Crest. 16-storey tower is destined for Bear Mountain.

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#91 aastra

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 11:23 AM

I think it's safe to say the Bear Mountain stuff will all happen as planned. It's the non-resort projects in other areas of the west comms that are more iffy, methinks. They'll happen eventually, for sure. But how soon is anybody's guess.

#92 Galvanized

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 11:52 PM

^I was thinking the same thing.

I wonder what this latest one will look like? Maybe it will have a cavern theme?
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#93 concorde

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 08:40 PM

I hear pre-sales for Soaring Peaks were a disaster, but sales for Highlander and Stonehaven were good.

I don't blame anyone, who wants to live in an ugly 23 storey tower in Langford. What's next, build a 30 storey luxury condo in downtown Surrey?

#94 renthefinn

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 08:53 PM

^Well they are gonna be building 30+ storey condo's in downtown Surrey, but I haven't seen the marketing yet, and heard it's not supposed to be luxury, but give it a dozen or so years and we may see some of those proposals.

#95 Mike K.

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 10:08 AM

Soaring Peaks is such an eyesore...good grief, why are we embracing developers from Alberta that insist on developing the same horrid designs sprouting up there? Even the best highrise residential tower in Calgary is an average tower in Victoria due to the needs for energy conservation in the prairies.

Even the Bayview development is Alberta-like and lacks aesthetic umph that would have made it pleasing to the eyes in twenty years.

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#96 Galvanized

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 12:12 PM

Developers court natives with casino

Deal with Bear Mountain resort struck after dispute over sacred cave; needs province's OK: Langford mayor

Louise Dickson, Times Colonist; with files from Lindsay Kines
Published: Saturday, December 02, 2006

Langford Mayor Stew Young, local First Nations and Bear Mountain Resort developers are taking a gamble a First Nations casino will smooth the bumps on Skirt Mountain.

The proposal for a small destination casino at the golf resort is contained in an agreement Young said has been initialled by the municipality, the developer and First Nations who have been meeting for the past two weeks to try to resolve their differences. The proposals will now be put forward to the province.

[...]
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#97 aastra

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 12:36 PM

Methinks the casino has become the 21st century's "sacred cave."

#98 Mike K.

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 03:03 PM

"The sacred cave, which was at the heart of the conflict, will be destroyed, said Young. A healing ceremony will be held at the cave, then development will proceed."

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#99 zoomer

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:00 PM

Wow, what a crazy story. I can't help but feel it's a silly little dance that the developers, politicians and First Nations leaders are playing. The developers and politicians are buying off the First Nations...makes me wonder if the Tsartlip band had legitimate concerns to start with, or was it just a ploy to extract cash and benefits.

It's a sad state of affairs when first nations have to resort to these tactics in order to address their legitimate needs and concerns. While it's wonderful to see private companies working in tandem with First Nations for a greater good, I'm sure this is only because of the potential of costly delays and protests.

Heck, wouldn't it be ironic if both Bear Mountain and the Tsartlip conspired to create a "cave controversy" out of thin air in order to gain a casino licencse from which they will both benefit.

First Nations people deserve a better future than working in casinos. If this is the best our politicians can do, then we can expect another generation to endure poverty and inequality.

#100 Mike K.

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 05:00 PM

^imagine if that were true :oops:

However, the media may be delibirately stirring up controversy. The following lines make me very suspicious of this article:

"Nothing has been agreed to," he said.

Brewer said a purported copy of the deal, which was e-mailed to the Times Colonist, is actually a list of "discussion items" from one of the first meetings. The list makes several references to the development of a casino.

"I recognize some of those from the talks," he said. "Those were obviously just items that were thrown out for discussion."

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