3104 replies to this topic

[Victoria Watcher]

Rail would have environmental advantages — it has lower emissions compared with vehicles — and would reduce traffic on the roads.

 

Colwood Mayor Rob Martin said: “Rail is essential and we have to get to a multi-modal ­system within Victoria.”

 

Although a commuter service running along the E&N line would not go through Colwood, Martin, who sits on the Victoria Transit Commission, said spur lines into Colwood would link to the service.

 

 

https://www.timescol...ors-say-5390216

 

 

Spur lines into Colwood.  These guys are insane.

 

 

 

 

I'd like Rob Martin to show me on this Colwood map where he plans to install spur lines.

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 May 2022 - 04:04 AM.

[Mike K.]

Gondolas, fast ferries, spur lines…

20 years from now workers will still be stuck on a highway built for a 1960s population in 1990, and beefed up to a 1980s population in 2020.

[Victoria Watcher]

All I want is the simple data.

 

What is the maximum capacity for rail, and what percentage of cars will that remove?

 

I believe even at some kind of mythical super-capacity with 10 high-speed trains and track-twinning, at most it takes 10% of cars off the road.  

 

That's not worth $400m or $800 or $2B.

 

The only way to deliver significant volumes into the Songhees is having two train bays, so while one is loading/unloading, the other can enter the other bay.  So you'd need a significantly wide terminal.  

 

You'd need to dump 10,000 to 20,000 people per hour right here.

 

 

How well do you think that will work?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 May 2022 - 06:13 AM.

[splashflash]

Well, this rail service would be worse than a bunch of big cars, because it is less efficient than most Canadian passenger rail services, and on average, rail in Canada does not stack up that well against other modes.

This is not SkyTrain in Vancouver, the C-Train in Calgary, the Younge Subway in Toronto or even the Go Train services in the GTA or the West Coast Express. Or the Toronto to Montreal VIA service. Those are efficient because passenger loading is high. The other passenger rail services drag down the average rail efficiency to give a black eye to rail (though unbeknown to most people and the media), and any Island service would be on the inefficient side.

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Edited by splashflash, 20 May 2022 - 06:46 AM.

[splashflash]

All I want is the simple data.
 
What is the maximum capacity for rail, and what percentage of cars will that remove?
 
I believe even at some kind of mythical super-capacity with 10 high-speed trains and track-twinning, at most it takes 10% of cars off the road.  
 
That's not worth $400m or $800 or $2B.
 
The only way to deliver significant volumes into the Songhees is having two train bays, so while one is loading/unloading, the other can enter the other bay.  So you'd need a significantly wide terminal.  
 
You'd need to dump 10,000 to 20,000 people per hour right here.
 
screenshot-www.google.com-2022.05.20-10_12_04.png
 
How well do you think that will work?

10,000 to 20,000? Try a tenth of that. The South Island Transportation Study showed the following numbers, and since the Pandemic transit ridership has not clawed its way back to pre-2019 numbers.

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[Victoria Watcher]

To make any dent in cars it would need to be 10,000 to 20,000.

Commuter rail in both Vancouver and Toronto is still down below 50% of pre-pandemic levels. Not sure it’s ever coming back.

[Mike K.]

That’s the equivalent of 15 double deckers with room to spare (1,600 passengers).

Or about the amount that run between 6AM and 9AM, taking riders straight into downtown with multiple stops downtown. The train would drop people off in Vic West.

[Ismo07]

That’s the equivalent of 15 double deckers with room to spare (1,600 passengers).

Or about the amount that run between 6AM and 9AM, taking riders straight into downtown with multiple stops downtown. The train would drop people off in Vic West.

 

Yeah terrible idea to use trains at this point...  Pave it and allow express busses to run that route.  They can disperse to different spots in town and return on the highway, then flip in it the PM.

[Mike K.]

Is paving it a no-go? I think it has to remain rail?

[splashflash]

Is paving it a no-go? I think it has to remain rail?

Paving it could secure the right-of-way. Land through the Esquimalt First Nation would would go back to them unless they wanted a busway through the reservation.

There was a busway study done which the SITS used for the busway ridership, more than double the users and tens to hundreds of millions cheaper. The study looked a the Corridor as a whole and three segments, of which starting with the Vic West to Esquimalt segment would make most sense. Of course the myopic CRD did not discuss that option and put all their eggs in the rail basket. The province seems to rightly be ignoring them, providing funding for bus lanes on the provincially owned highways. The bus lanes have a magnitude greater ridership projections for less money.

[dasmo]

My understanding is it needs to be rail

B.C. Supreme Court Judge Robert D. Punnett dismissed the suit in June 2020, ruling it couldn’t be said that the [right of way] is no longer required for railway purposes. ICF’s plans to continue upkeep on the rail line, with present funding and its intention to continue to use the lands for railway purposes did not constitute an inefficient use that would trigger the right of reversion, he said.

https://www.vancouve...-can-try-again/

[dasmo]

I say build it and add a few museum cars and trips on the weekend.

[Spy Black]

I think folks might be underestimating the amount of land the right-of-way still holds in Vic West.

Generally speaking, they control 50' on either side of the tracks at a bare minimum ... but in actual fact they more often than not control far more land than that ... stretching into the hundreds of feet in some locations.

 

Much of the new green space on the west side of the new bridge is in fact railway right-of-way ... developed as parkland for now, but ultimately forming part of the right-of-way if it was needed as such by the rightful holders of that right-of-way.

 

A substantial portion of the Vic West lands around the west side of the bridge would be completely redeveloped, ultimately looking nothing at all like it looks today (even "post" new bridge).

[Nparker]

I say build it and add a few museum cars and trips on the weekend.

Are museum cars as expensive as museums?

[Victoria Watcher]

I think folks might be underestimating the amount of land the right-of-way still holds in Vic West.

Generally speaking, they control 50' on either side of the tracks at a bare minimum ... but in actual fact they more often than not control far more land than that ... stretching into the hundreds of feet in some locations.

 

Much of the new green space on the west side of the new bridge is in fact railway right-of-way ... developed as parkland for now, but ultimately forming part of the right-of-way if it was needed as such by the rightful holders of that right-of-way.

 

A substantial portion of the Vic West lands around the west side of the bridge would be completely redeveloped, ultimately looking nothing at all like it looks today (even "post" new bridge).

 

Where will we put the railcar overnight storage and maintenance yard?

[Spy Black]

Where will we put the railcar overnight storage and maintenance yard?

Tons of room out Akins Road way. 

No transit operation ever stores their unused cars in the middle of the city they are ultimately intended to serve.

If you don't like Atkins Road, then look to Langford Lake and Goldstream.

 

Either way, there's lots of space in the region to situate a small train yard.

[Victoria Watcher]

Tons of room out Akins Road way. 

No transit operation ever stores their unused cars in the middle of the city they are ultimately intended to serve.

If you don't like Atkins Road, then look to Langford Lake and Goldstream.

 

Either way, there's lots of space in the region to situate a small train yard.

 

I didn't suggest it would be downtown.

 

But, all of the WestCoast Express (5 trains) and most of the Go Trains (20+ trains) sit idle downtown mid-day.

 

 

 

 

New York:

 

Subway ridership fell by more than 90% when the coronavirus shuttered restaurants, businesses, schools and cultural institutions. Weekday subway usage is down by about 40% of pre-pandemic levels.

 

https://www.bnnbloom...iders-1.1768233

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 May 2022 - 09:10 AM.

[Ismo07]

I didn't suggest it would be downtown.

 

But, all of the WestCoast Express and most of the Go Trains sit downtown mid-day.

 

Didn't the dayliner just sit on the tracks downtown over night?

[dasmo]

Are museum cars as expensive as museums?

With only 456 million in railway costs there is an extra 321 million left to make some cars! 

[dasmo]

Tons of room out Akins Road way. 

No transit operation ever stores their unused cars in the middle of the city they are ultimately intended to serve.

If you don't like Atkins Road, then look to Langford Lake and Goldstream.

 

Either way, there's lots of space in the region to situate a small train yard.

Part of the old Round House development proposal had this promised in it. Along with a museum.