3310 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

Yellowjacket has been assigned to administrative duties, Vancouver PD has been asked to investigate. Chief Jamie Graham calls the actions on the video "shocking".

[VicHockeyFan]

Meanwhile...

RCMP to unleash new armoured vehicles on Metro Vancouver streets

Vancouver Sun
March 23, 2010

METRO VANCOUVER -- People shouldn't be surprised to see armoured vehicles travelling Lower Mainland streets.

The RCMP have acquired two Tactical Armoured Vehicles (TAV II) for the Emergency Response Team Program in B.C., Sgt. Peter Thiessen said in a press release Tuesday.

[...]

http://www.vancouver...7943/story.html

[http]

Wow, did I ever misunderstand! Thanks for explaining that for me.

Just to clarify this insightful point, if police use force to break up a drunken brawl (and apprehend the suspects responsible for a violent assault) and some aspect of the police response ends up being excessive or otherwise inappropriate to the situation, then the actions of the police are no different than the actions of the drunken brawlers themselves.

The thug who beats a guy unconscious is no different than the cop who kicks the thug in the ribs while trying to arrest him for his crime. Wanton violence.

I learn so very much from the very clever people on this board.

Maybe you're right, and I didn't express myself clearly enough. I'll essay another explanation of my opinion. A thug who beats another unconscious is a criminal, guilty of assault (though lack of evidence may preclude conviction before the court). A police officer who unnecessarily kicks a thug in the ribs while another is placing said thug in cuffs* is also a criminal, guilty of assault (though again, lack of evidence (or the percieved inadmissibility of damning evidence) may preclude conviction).

Is that precise enough now, or are we going to have to re-write the constitution here?

That an officer could get a desk job out of it instead of a court date makes me feel less safe in Victoria - it seems to me that the police would rather protect their own, right or wrong, than uphold rule of law.

*it seems to me that, for the second suspect/perpetrator, the officer in blue would have finished a lot faster without the officer in yellow's participatio

[victorian fan]

He guy that was beaten is going to sue. He's playing the race card.

[LJ]

There it is, conclusive evidence.

Post edited by admin to remove quote of deleted post.

[G-Man]

[..]







[...]
Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz0j7vyokyR

Now that is a REAL miscarriage of justice.

[manuel]

Mike K - is it time to ask the TC for story credits or royalties?

[cam]

I watched the video multiple times.

Obviously without having the events leading up to the video being shot, I can't give a concrete assessment.

But, from what I saw...

There was a person unconscious laying on the ground. A crowd of people. Limited Police members. No other emergency responders.

My assumptions would be that a fight just took place, police were first on scene, and there were lots of intoxicated people.

I think the "Yellow Jacket" may not have needed to soccer kick the one guy in the ribs. But he absolutely had to do something. Is a taser better? No. Is punching him in the head better? No. Is choking him until he's unconscious better? No. For the situation, there wasn't a lot that could be done. They needed to gain control as fast as they could, and they did not have time to "reason" with a bunch of seemingly drunk idiots.


What people don't realize is that the Police Department, whether right or wrong, will be looked down on by citizens now. Resulting in disrespect for their authority, and increasing the hostility shown towards police officers. Making this type of occurance more likely.

What is a better solution? Pull your gun? No.

The lesson learned here is that this would have never happened if people were more respectful of eachother and authority. The original fight should have never happened, AND if it did happen, the person on the ground should have NEVER been hit again after they went down. The police would not have been concerned for the safety of themselves or others if the people did as they were told by Police in this situation.

[sebberry]

I don't care about what happened before. The fact is that there were two officers already dealing with one guy on the ground when yellowjacket walked up, kicked and walked away.

As for the second guy who was kicked, I can't see how a kick and a knee to the spine was required to gain compliance from the suspect who was already on the ground.

[Mike K.]

Mike K - is it time to ask the TC for story credits or royalties?

I understand that a number of reporters from the TC read this forum on a regular basis for story ideas or leads.

I guess the public ensures this place stays ahead of the curve, and oftentimes news is revealed here well in advance of coverage by the mainstream media.

What is particularly disheartening, however, are instances of unique stories or coverage coming out of VibrantVictoria.ca that is then picked up by the MSM with no credit other than an abstract reference to VV as "an online blog" or "an online forum." I'm pretty sure that shouldn't jive with credit policies of respected media organizations, but I digress.

[Bob Fugger]

I think the "Yellow Jacket" may not have needed to soccer kick the one guy in the ribs. But he absolutely had to do something.

Did he, though? The second guy he went to town on was already prone and - most importantly - was prone as a result of his voluntarily complying with the officer. That is, the officer yelled at him to hit the dirt and he did so. The other officer was trying to restrain him and it appears that he began resist arrest when the officer began kicking the crap out of him.

As for the Chief's assessment: "You can see his actions are deliberate and seem to be well thought out," I certainly agree. The officer gave some thought as to how to control the scene and came to the conclusion that he could do so by deliberatly kicking/kneeing the crap out of the guy.

[cam]

Did he, though? The second guy he went to town on was already prone and - most importantly - was prone as a result of his voluntarily complying with the officer. That is, the officer yelled at him to hit the dirt and he did so. The other officer was trying to restrain him and it appears that he began resist arrest when the officer began kicking the crap out of him.

As for the Chief's assessment: "You can see his actions are deliberate and seem to be well thought out," I certainly agree. The officer gave some thought as to how to control the scene and came to the conclusion that he could do so by deliberatly kicking/kneeing the crap out of the guy.

Yes, I think he did. He was in a hostile environment, and needed to ensure people were put under control in the shortest amount of time.

I wouldn't say either of those individuals were complying. The guy at the start of the video had two officers on him, yet still resisting.
The second guy was told to get on the ground, and the Yellow Jacket took out his handcuffs, the 2nd officer came in, pushed him over, and told him to put his hands behind his back. Then the guy appears as though he is going to try to crawl away. He gets kicked, says "Ow, I got it, ow ow ow" then does nothing. He didn't put his hands behind his back for exactly 12 seconds. When he did put his hands behind his back, they simply handcuffed him. He was bleeding, and had his shirt ripped BEFORE this happened. It seemed obvious that he was involved earlier.

For clarification, neither of those guys were prone voluntarily. The first guy was *maybe* prone just before the camera moved in the video, and the 2nd guy was never prone.

That being said, I agree his actions were deliberate. It is easy for us to sit here and judge the entire situation based on 0:56 seconds.

Regardless, it is unfortunate for everyone involved.

[sebberry]

When the second guy was crawling, yellowjacket should have simply grabbed his left arm while the other officer had control of his right arm. The crawler would have easily dropped to the ground. There was no need for the kick. In fact, after yellowjacket's kick, the crawler fell down to his left side with his left hand in front of him. Yellowjacket burried his knee into crawler's spine making it virtually impossible for crawler to slip his hand between himself and the ground to place it behind his back.

Yellowjacket then hit crawler in the back again with his knee before crawler had much of a chance to comply and put his left hand behind his back.

If the officers simply grabbed crawlers hands, crawler would have fallen flat on his front and the officers would have had perfect control of his hands.


I'm surprised nobody has commented on how hard those kicks could have been if they were picked up by a tiny camera microphone...

[VicHockeyFan]

Kicked teen recalls 'pain'

By Louise Dickson, Times Colonist
March 26, 2010 2:07 AM

Tyler Archer says he's the one who needed help.

A widely seen video posted on YouTube shows Archer being kicked by a Victoria police officer.

Police say they were breaking up a fight and trying to arrest the participants.

This is Archer's account of what happened.

Read more: http://www.timescolo...l#ixzz0jHeQYraS

[davek]

The militarization of police has been increasing in the US for a long time,
to the sorrow of many citizens. Giving police military equipment like the armoured assault vehicle VHF posted about only serves to encourage the inappropriate mindset too many law enforcement officers have concerning their status relative to everyone else, and widens the gulf that exists between police and 'civilians". My fellow Americans should have put a stop to this sort of nonsense long ago, and I'm sorry to see it raise its ugly head here.

[VicHockeyFan]

The militarization of police has been increasing in the US for a long time,
to the sorrow of many citizens. Giving police military equipment like the armoured assault vehicle VHF posted about only serves to encourage the inappropriate mindset too many law enforcement officers have concerning their status relative to everyone else, and widens the gulf that exists between police and 'civilians". My fellow Americans should have put a stop to this sort of nonsense long ago, and I'm sorry to see it raise its ugly head here.

I'm concerned about that assault vehicle too. What is the point? Police have gone out of their way to say that the vehicle has none of the military weaponry on it, so what is it for? They say, don't worry, the only weapons are the ones the officers carry. OK, so why show up in an armoured vehicle, when all you are going to do is get out of it with your hand-guns? It's very odd.

[sebberry]

I'm concerned about that assault vehicle too. What is the point? Police have gone out of their way to say that the vehicle has none of the military weaponry on it, so what is it for? They say, don't worry, the only weapons are the ones the officers carry. OK, so why show up in an armoured vehicle, when all you are going to do is get out of it with your hand-guns? It's very odd.

Imagine if militarization of the police garnered the same sort of attention from the public as..er.. changing the words to our National Anthem?

[victorian fan]

I'm concerned about that assault vehicle too. What is the point? Police have gone out of their way to say that the vehicle has none of the military weaponry on it, so what is it for? They say, don't worry, the only weapons are the ones the officers carry. OK, so why show up in an armoured vehicle, when all you are going to do is get out of it with your hand-guns? It's very odd.

Scare tactics? Mind you, it pretty expensive for that.

I really have no idea.

[Lorenzo]

Equip that thing with a water cannon, a Canadarm for reaching out and cherry picking suspects / drunks, and a garbage bin prisoner trailer (padded of course) and I think you have a winner for the downtown bar closing crowd.

[victorian fan]

mumble.....drunks.......paddywagon...mumble..... jail