336 replies to this topic

[D.L.]

I can

[amor de cosmos]

It didn't look like trouble last time I was there.

[G-Man]

Have they not always been closed on Sunday and Monday??

[mysage]

What pub closes on a Sunday? I smell trouble.

Hope not but if this is strictly a cost saving move (and nothing wrong with saving costs) it seems like an exercise in "false economy" to me.

Strictly guess work here but:

A quick look with some "kitchen table" math show that a guess (based on $ per sq ft in that area) would show that the minimum lease they are paying is around $5000 per month (but I would wager it is much more on a triple net lease).

That means on an annual basis they are paying a $60,000. Divided by 365 days a year means that they are paying $164.38 per day whether they are open or not. Now being closed for 3 days a week x 52 weeks a year means they are closed at a minimum 156 days a year (not including some extra holiday times). At 164.38 x 156 we have a cost of $25,643.28 pa. That is a major loss before they even open the doors - 42.73% of their rent is paid with no chance of off setting it with sales. This calculation does not include other hard costs that they might have (insurance, phone, accounting, salaries, etc) which would increase the per day costs even more. That seems like a bad business model to me.

I hope they are surviving OK as I like the place and go there often but I agree that things are looking very shaky.

Anyone with a restaurant and or accounting background here feel free to weigh in and correct me. I have no background in either but the business side of many things interest me.

[Bob Fugger]

Hope not but if this is strictly a cost saving move (and nothing wrong with saving costs) it seems like an exercise in "false economy" to me.

Strictly guess work here but:

A quick look with some "kitchen table" math show that a guess (based on $ per sq ft in that area) would show that the minimum lease they are paying is around $5000 per month (but I would wager it is much more on a triple net lease).

That means on an annual basis they are paying a $60,000. Divided by 365 days a year means that they are paying $164.38 per day whether they are open or not. Now being closed for 3 days a week x 52 weeks a year means they are closed at a minimum 156 days a year (not including some extra holiday times). At 164.38 x 156 we have a cost of $25,643.28 pa. That is a major loss before they even open the doors - 42.73% of their rent is paid with no chance of off setting it with sales. This calculation does not include other hard costs that they might have (insurance, phone, accounting, salaries, etc) which would increase the per day costs even more. That seems like a bad business model to me.

I hope they are surviving OK as I like the place and go there often but I agree that things are looking very shaky.

Anyone with a restaurant and or accounting background here feel free to weigh in and correct me. I have no background in either but the business side of many things interest me.

Are they closed three days per week, now? I thought it was just Sunday & Mondays.

As for your math, it's hard to say - too many variables, including:

• Number of salaried staff vs. hourly staff (likely more of the latter) - lends to argument to keep closed on a slow day
• Perishibility of food/ordering efficiency - if you can order around an off period or if your goods are not all that perishable, you can afford to be closed and not waste food
• Business flows - if you only have 10 tables over the course of a Sunday, your variable costs are probably through the roof. Maybe it's worth it to cut your losses at the fixed cost loss. I'm also guessing that a lot of the business there is driven by the 9-5 light-industrial Rock Bay lunch bucket crowd. If they're not there, why open?
• Opportunity costs - this is a brew pub. If the operator makes more on the beer side and could increase profitability by devoting more time to the beer side of the business, he'd be foolish to stay open during down times when he could be brewing.

Not knowing the business at all except from what I can glean on here and Facebook, it looks like they had a bit of a following for their Sunday roast beef. It can be a loss leader at the worst of times, but if you're smart you can turn a tidy profit on it, plus all of the incidental beer sales you might not otherwise have.

Moving their roast beef special to Saturday night may not work out for them - roast beef dinner specials are a Sunday pub staple in Victoria. If it was me, based on my own assumptions/appraisals, I would have closed Saturday day and Sunday day, but opened up at night.

[jonny]

If they are covering their variable costs on Sundays than they should be open on Sundays. If they are not, then they should be closed.

[pontcanna]

The Moon has been sold. The Bradleys are staying on for a month to help with the handover to the new owners, who seem young and ambitious. Here's a link with the full story:

New Ownership for The Moon Under Water « B.C. Beer Blog

On Facebook, Bonnie Bradley indicates that two of the signature brews (the Bitter and IPA) will be kept going, with the addition of guest beers (Central City Lager and Hoyne Dark Matter at the moment) and finally the brews as made by the new brewer.

[EskimoDave]

Central City is cancelling their lager, so if it's going to the moon, get it while you can.

[G-Man]

Interesting. I hope that this younger set can liven the place up a bit. It is good beer just needs some newer energy.

[pontcanna]

Plus a rethinking of the general interior design...AND opening Sundays...one of my favourite pub days

[Bernard]

I was in there on Saturday last weekend and they were out of several of their beers - a bit shocking they were out of two of them, they should have taken them off of the board

[weirdie]

I went there last night to see West My Friend play. Service was great, food was pretty good, but they were again out of most of their beers. We were told by our waitress that some of their brewing equipment broke down and they haven't had it repaired yet.

[VicHockeyFan]

....told by our waitress ...

I though the place didn't have any waitresses?

April 30, 2012, VHF:

That will be interesting. And I'm almost positive it won't work.

We aren't used to dealing in cash nearly as much any more. In traditional English pubs, you go to the bar to buy each drink, pay cash, you either order food at the bar or at a kitchen window, pay cash.

There are no servers, but there are bussers picking empties and plates. But "pay cash" has become foreign to many. You can get away with the cash model in nightclubs, many do not take debit, many will let you run a credit card tab. But the ones that don't take debit direct you to the bank machine they own or lease, they like the $1.75 or whatever they get for each transaction, and they also like the convenience of a way to get their cash sales back into circulation without having to go to the bank every day.

But nightclubs are full of young people that don't care about the $3 private bank machine service charge. This pub won't have customers that are like that, and the pub will not want to run debit at the bar for drink after drink, it'll cost them too much time and fees.

I ran a nightclub that was full of young people. We did accept debit, but actually charged 50 cents per transaction for it. Here is a typical weekend day/night:

CASH $5500
DEBIT $2500
Credit Card $2000

And again, that a younger person's place. The pub will see way more credit card use.

I think it will be awkward.

[weirdie]

I though the place didn't have any waitresses?

I thought so too, that's why we were confused when we got up to walk to the bar and were stopped by one of the passing waitresses and told that they have table service. I don't know if it's a weekend thing or not, but we did indeed have full table service the whole time we were there.

[VicHockeyFan]

And to think I've avoided the place for 2.5 years, never been once. I have a fear of walk-up.

[amor de cosmos]

they've got new owners now which might explain the difference

[Redd42]

I own a small business in the area around this pub. We were happy that they opened since we used to be downtown and missed being able to pop down to the pub for a pint and a bite when we worked late. But my partner and I went there only once about 2 years ago. I think the food and beer were ok but it was the atmosphere that really put us off. The room had all the warmth of a company cafeteria. And yes, the lack of wait staff was also annoying.

About the atmosphere - a pet peeve of mine is folks who start up a small business but figure they will save costs by doing their tenant improvements themselves. MOST of the time it shows. This was the case with the Moon. I remembered the uncomfortable bench seating that they had made themselves.

We were visited in our business a few weeks ago by a very friendly young woman who told us the pub had new owners and was encouraging us to come try it again. But there was no incentive to do so - no 20% off coupon, no discount for being a local business, no 2 for 1 promotion.

Meanwhile Hoyne has opened and we have gotten in the habit of grabbing a couple of pints and drinking them on our own premises when we stay late. Unless Moon provides us with some incentive to try them again, we will just keep giving Hoyne our business directly.

[VicHockeyFan]

We were visited in our business a few weeks ago by a very friendly young woman who told us the pub had new owners and was encouraging us to come try it again. But there was no incentive to do so - no 20% off coupon, no discount for being a local business, no 2 for 1 promotion.

Wow, that's a fail.

[Sparky]

Welcome to vibrantvictoria Redd42.

[Mr Cook Street]

I was there a couple weeks ago on a weeknight. The waitress told us they are doing table service all the time now.