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Moon Under Water Brewery and Distillery, pub and tasting room | 350 Bay Street


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#41 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 01:30 PM

They must think they're special or something and can operate a bar on a restaurant license. Do these people ever think to themselves "gee why do they have two types of liquor licenses?". Also they're questioning why people in the community would want to be part of the process of granting a liquor license. Gee I wonder why that is? I know I wouldn't want a pub next door to me.


During the last police regime, the police were opposed to any increase in licensed LP seats or licensed LP hours of operation. They may have eased up on this. I can't see line-ups of people at a public hearing opposed to a LP where they have located. Reminds me of the Fifth Street pub application, nobody really opposed it.

They maybe should have just talked to City Hall before they went ahead with their plans, the folks in Legislative Services there are very familiar with liquor licensing rules.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#42 G-Man

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:06 PM

I Would welcome a pub next door to me.

#43 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:07 AM

I Would welcome a pub next door to me.


Me too. I'm grateful to have a couple just a 1.5 minute walk from my place.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#44 pontcanna

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 11:53 AM

I thought the people behind the brewpub had experience in the pub/brewing industry...seems kind of odd to be ignorant of the basics...but the location is so grubby in terms of industry/dust in the wind (cue Kansas song) that a pub of any description could only improve it. Hope it goes through.

#45 spanky123

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:12 PM

They shouldd offer a courtesy car detailing service along with the purchase of any beverage. Any car parked there for more than 15 minutes will be covered with a 1" coating of dust from across the street!

#46 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:49 PM

Tonight council will set a public hearing date for late August.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#47 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 12:18 PM

http://mondaymag.com.../over-the-moon/

For instance, the new brewpub will feature British serving conventions, whereby customers go up to the bar to order food and drinks. Patrons will have the option of paying for each drink as it is collected, or running a “slate” that is settled upon exit.


That maybe clears up a bit of the earlier discussions.

Tradition is one reason for Don’s choice of lighter beers, but he is also wary of what he sees as tendencies toward higher alcohol beers. “There’s a lot of people who want to have a flavourful beer but not get drunk. Some IPAs [India Pale Ales] are upward of eight or even 10 percent now. It can be detrimental to the social side of going to a pub.” The Bradleys are not alone in favouring lower alcohol beers. Spinnakers recently announced it would be brewing more sub-5 percent ales, partly in response to B.C.’s new and stricter impaired-driving rules. The Bradleys are less concerned here, as they anticipate a lot of foot traffic from nearby neighbourhoods, and the developments along the Dockside Green.


I would desperately like to see this pub work out. And that last statement is likely to be the very right thing to say when you are about to go to a public hearing. But be assured, there is no way a pub can survive off walk-in traffic in that location. NO POSSIBLE WAY.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#48 tedward

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 11:31 AM

That will be interesting. And I'm almost positive it won't work.

The article I read said they were going to take payment either as you order or you could run a "slate". Either way that does require cash. What exactly is unworkable?

I for one would rather do this than have to tip an annoying waitress.

#49 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 11:52 AM

The article I read said they were going to take payment either as you order or you could run a "slate". Either way that does require cash. What exactly is unworkable?

I for one would rather do this than have to tip an annoying waitress.


Well, I already said a few reasons. But to recap: People don't use cash so much any more. We are the #1 country in the world for debit card use. 40 people in the bar, all running "slates" under their name, there will be mix-ups by the bartenders, putting drinks/food on the wrong slate. Then the invariable argument at settling time. Then people "dine and dashing". Then getting your food wrong and having to find someone to fix it or bring you white vinegar or extra mayo, when the only floor service is a busser.

Quite simply, we are not used to this. The locals in Cedar may have figured it out, the locals here, or the tourists won't.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#50 pontcanna

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 12:03 PM

I love self-serve. Partly because I'm comfortable with English pub conventions, and also with HST and all it's nice to save the 15%+ that normally goes to tipping.

#51 amor de cosmos

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 12:05 PM

why is this place the moon over water? iirc the pub the orwell thing it's the moon under water.

#52 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 01:45 PM

why is this place the moon over water? iirc the pub the orwell thing it's the moon under water.


Hmhmm, maybe the thread title was just started in error. I'll see if I can fix.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#53 amor de cosmos

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 06:12 PM

pics & link to monday mag article
http://smallbeerblog...ias-latest.html

edit: looks like they're going full-on british -style with the setup. I guess I'm the last person to notice that. It must have been the mention of a bitter on the menu. If they have one I'll be there all the time :D Cool to see they like the more sessionable styles, which goes against the grain a bit. Everyone else seems to make their beers stronger.

#54 amor de cosmos

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 12:46 PM

btw how does the self-serve thing work? to the guests get a receipt with a number on it & then the number gets called out or something when the order's ready, sort of like a Dairy Queen?

#55 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 12:56 PM

btw how does the self-serve thing work? to the guests get a receipt with a number on it & then the number gets called out or something when the order's ready, sort of like a Dairy Queen?


A more stylish way would be to have display board with numbers on it when ready, or take your cell #, call/text you when ready. Everyone has a phone.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#56 coffeetrooper

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

Spinnakers started as a self serve pub. If anyone remembers it was jam packed all the time. It created much more of a traditional pub atmosphere as opposed to the way we do pubs over here, which is basically just a restaurant that kids cant enter. It worked so that you ordered beers from the bar and then went to the food bar and ordered real pub food. When the food came up they called out your number and you went and got your food. Doing it this way meant that you could wander thru the pub chatting with friends and all the regulars and you werent nailed down to a particular seat or table. It made for a more social atmosphere, like everyone was invited to a party. Im a big fan of the idea. It makes for a much better neighborhood pub feel and much less touristy than the pubs in the victoria core.

oh..and yes you still have to tip the bartender and "food tender" unless your a jerk.

#57 pontcanna

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 01:50 PM

Of course one still tips, but throwing a couple of bucks in the tip glass always seems more genuine and less onerous to me than the choreographed dance one sometimes has to do with one's server, good or bad.

Yep, give me self serve...except I wonder if they'll move enough beer without the "can I get you another?" upselling. The old gits playing bridge or reading the paper over one pint is very traditional but not as profitable.

#58 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

Spinnakers started as a self serve pub. If anyone remembers it was jam packed all the time. It created much more of a traditional pub atmosphere as opposed to the way we do pubs over here, which is basically just a restaurant that kids cant enter. It worked so that you ordered beers from the bar and then went to the food bar and ordered real pub food. When the food came up they called out your number and you went and got your food.


Spinnakers opened in 1984. That same year, although bank cards were in play, it was the year Interac started. So one card worked at many bank machines. Those bank machines in 1984 were all located at, well, banks.

Direct debit did not appear until 1992 in BC.

http://www.interac.ca/about.php

Since then, debit cards have become wildly popular, and credit card use has also grown substantially. Some of us will remember when you could not buy groceries with a credit card (Woodwards Food Floor made a killing being the only one for a while).

So paying cash at the bar, then at the kitchen simply will not work. Customers will soon tire of paying a $2-$3 fee to get cash from the private bank machine once they arrive.

I'm hoping they have a good remedy in hand.

Yep, give me self serve...except I wonder if they'll move enough beer without the "can I get you another?" upselling. The old gits playing bridge or reading the paper over one pint is very traditional but not as profitable.


A well-run operation gets 10-15% of their sales this way. And in restaurant/pub operations where profits are often below 7 or 10%, well, that's all your profit.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#59 tedward

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:56 AM

Well, I already said a few reasons. But to recap: People don't use cash so much any more. We are the #1 country in the world for debit card use.

So you think they won't use debit machines? Nonsense.

40 people in the bar, all running "slates" under their name, there will be mix-ups by the bartenders, putting drinks/food on the wrong slate.

Right...because it is much more complicated for servers to get the ticket right at the bar than at table side? Nonsense.


Then people "dine and dashing".

Because this never happens with people who order, eat and then wait for the bill to come from the server? Nonsense.

Then getting your food wrong and having to find someone to fix it or bring you white vinegar or extra mayo, when the only floor service is a busser.

So there would be no way to find extra condiments or speak to someone at the serving point about such things? Nonsense.

Quite simply, we are not used to this. The locals in Cedar may have figured it out, the locals here, or the tourists won't.

This is really all your argument comes down to: people are too stupid to order from a counter/window? I know how hard it is for people to use such facilities. Good thing we have wait staff serving table side at MacDonald's, A&W, Dairy Queen, Red Fish Blue Fish, Royal Athletic Park Concessions, and hundreds of other food and drink vendors.

As for the tourist trade why would they be in any way significant? This location is far out of the tourist zone. The only ones likely to show up are pub aficionados who would be delighted by the "exotic" service.

Look, if you want a place with wait-staff go somewhere else. Slagging their business plan based on questionable assumptions seems kinda rude.

#60 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:05 AM

tedward, if the plan is such a remarkable and great idea, why does NO OTHER RESTAURANT / PUB IN VICTORIA use it!?!. All the examples you cite are take-out places. Even the ones that tried (Spinnakers, Maude Hunters) abandoned it years ago, as customers' expectations changed and debit use became more widespread.

I'm just predicting it won't work. And for the many reasons I cited, based on my 4 years as a general manager in the service industry very recently.

I'm not slagging anyone.

So you think they won't use debit machines? Nonsense.



I didn't say that. But businesses can not afford to run a debit card for each and every drink/food item. They pay a charge for every single transaction. That's why most places you go to will not debit, or they charge a fee for under, say $5 or $6.

40 people in the bar, all running "slates" under their name, there will be mix-ups by the bartenders, putting drinks/food on the wrong slate.


Right...because it is much more complicated for servers to get the ticket right at the bar than at table side? Nonsense.


Yes, it sure is. When you can assign a table number to a bill, it's way easier. The way this will be set up, every time a guy buys a drink you'll either need to remember their name, ask his name*, or note his clothing or something. How will one or two bartenders keep track of 50 or 60 people? So now when a customer goes to pay, and you have him down for three beers, and he claims he only had two, how are you going to assign that other beer to someone? At that point, you are lost. Your manager is going to have to write that beer off, although the person that drank it is likely in the room. There is no way you are going to figure out how you lost that other beer. The guy that got it, and did not get it assigned to his slate ain't going to offer to pay for it when his bill looks short by one beer. He's just going to feel lucky.

*And here is another problem. There is nothing personal and friendly about a server asking your name every single time you buy a beer. But invariable, to not look foolish, a server will start to try to remember your name, and in doing so will sometimes screw it up and assign your drink to the wrong slate. It's human nature. It will happen.
<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

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