959 replies to this topic

[LJ]

From experience it's always labeled as accidental but usually isn't. 

[sebberry]

Is there any reason to believe this was anything but a tragic accident?

[Victoria Watcher]

Is there any reason to believe this was anything but a tragic accident?

yes. the fact they say he “accidentally” went overboard but nobody actually saw it. so that actual conclusion is not logical. it’s more likely he jumped.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 December 2020 - 02:22 AM.

[Mike K.]

30 years of service. It’s a tragedy, in a year of tragedies for our navy forces. One unit alone has lost several members this year to mental health struggles. And you may recall the helicopter tragedy from earlier this year. Regardless of which coast one serves on the navy community is pretty tight.

We may laugh and joke about the state of our vessels, but the men and women who serve give everything, and sometimes the battles they face are not in combat, but on dark nights many miles from home, many months into a deployment to the furthest reaches of the world.

[spanky123]

Is there any reason to believe this was anything but a tragic accident?

 

No there isn't. The media originally stated that he went missing about 5:30AM. That sounded strange. The updated report corrected the time to 4AM local time which makes sense since that is the end of the middle watch. Normally a sailor would then go to the mess to grab and quick bite or warm drink and then head to their rack. Earlier reports stated that the sailor's all weather gear was hung up in his locker. That would imply that he went back to his bunk and then went back up to the deck for some reason. Earlier reports also mention the search being conducted by an Aurora from Comox without mentioning that there was a Cyclone on the Winnipeg. That has now been corrected as well.

 

The gent was a bosun with 2,000 days of experience at sea. He didn't just walk up on deck in the dark, take a wrong turn and fall overboard. Aren't there CCTV's on deck of the City class ships? Probably no need to speculate at all what happened.

[Victoria Watcher]

victoria news:

 

 

 

It’s believed Earle accidentally fell overboard in the early hours of Dec. 14 while the ship was 500 nautical miles west of San Francisco, Calif.

 

https://www.vicnews....g-to-esquimalt/

 

 

 

cbc:

 

Master Sailor Duane Earle, 47, is believed to have accidentally fallen overboard HMCS Winnipeg early Monday

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...earle-1.5843258

 

 

 

 

 

 

ctv and the tc do not mention the word "accident" or similar.

[AllseeingEye]

Zero point in speculating until the RCN does its due diligence and compiles its final report. Hinting at suicide IMO does a tremendous disservice to the memory of the man - not to mention surviving family - since no one from this forum was there, and has zero idea of the circumstances that actually occurred.

 

For all anyone knows he went back on deck for a "puff" and the ship heeled over violently and unexpectedly and over he went. Who knows. But without benefit of an official investigation and/or intimate knowledge of this service member speculation is useless. 

 

Many years ago I was invited out on an anti-submarine exercise in the Juan de Fuca Strait where the destroyer fired off its A/S mortars just as it went into an extreme turn to starboard - at speed - and I can tell you on these ships if you aren't securely clipped on and a maneuver like this occurs either by design (or in the midst of a major sea state-storm) you would absolutely get "launched" and there would be nothing you could do about it.

 

 

 

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[spanky123]

Zero point in speculating until the RCN does its due diligence and compiles its final report. Hinting at suicide IMO does a tremendous disservice to the memory of the man - not to mention surviving family - since no one from this forum was there, and has zero idea of the circumstances that actually occurred.

 

For all anyone knows he went back on deck for a "puff" and the ship heeled over violently and unexpectedly and over he went. Who knows. But without benefit of an official investigation and/or intimate knowledge of this service member speculation is useless. 

 

Many years ago I was invited out on an anti-submarine exercise in the Juan de Fuca Strait where the destroyer fired off its A/S mortars just as it went into an extreme turn to starboard - at speed - and I can tell you on these ships if you aren't securely clipped on and a maneuver like this occurs either by design (or in the midst of a major sea state-storm) you would absolutely get "launched" and there would be nothing you could do about it.

 

 

100% agree which is why I only said it sounded strange and it did because the initial info provided was wrong.

 

I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for any official report though. I am still waiting to hear why Provider caught fire and had to be written off! It is the Navy's complete lack of transparency which leads people to speculate.

Edited by spanky123, 16 December 2020 - 08:59 AM.

[Mike K.]

The seas they were in were rough. Very rough. 

 

Unless you've been on a vessel at a Level 6 sea state (upwards of 20 feet) it's hard to imagine the forces at work. He could have easily walked out to secure an item, lost his footing and went overboard in the darkness.

[North Shore]

Fair enough.  Either way, a tragic story...

[spanky123]

New information tonight.

 

Navy says that outer decks were closed, Earle was not on watch, and both of his sets of weather / survival gear were still in his mess deck.

[LJ]

The seas they were in were rough. Very rough. 

 

Unless you've been on a vessel at a Level 6 sea state (upwards of 20 feet) it's hard to imagine the forces at work. He could have easily walked out to secure an item, lost his footing and went overboard in the darkness.

Nobody is on the outer decks in those sea states and there would be ropes rigged in case of emergency.

 

Back in the day the garbage used to be thrown overboard from the aft of the ship, if anyone asked you to take out garbage at 4am you would politely decline.

[Victoria Watcher]

he would in fact be reprimanded if he did go out.

[Mike K.]

Well, he obviously “was” out on the outer deck. Another sailer even saw him step out and didn’t think anything of it or would have stopped him, or alerted someone, or had gone after him.

[spanky123]

Well, he obviously “was” out on the outer deck. Another sailer even saw him step out and didn’t think anything of it or would have stopped him, or alerted someone, or had gone after him.

 

Well, he obviously “was” out on the outer deck. Another sailer even saw him step out and didn’t think anything of it or would have stopped him, or alerted someone, or had gone after him.

 

CFAX reporting this morning that the Navy will be conducting a board of enquiry to see (in part) if "there were any warning signs or if anything could have been done differently".

 

The narrative is being changed. 

Edited by spanky123, 17 December 2020 - 07:42 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

they could have rigidly enforced rules. no going out without your weather gear.

[Mike K.]

And the sailor who saw him leave, could have or rather should have alerted a superior. That’s another thing that might need to be looked at.

[spanky123]

And the sailor who saw him leave, could have or rather should have alerted a superior. That’s another thing that might need to be looked at.

 

A can tell you from experience that when an incident like this happens everyone goes under the microscope. An accidentally drowning would effectively end the career of the Captain, XO, everyone on the bridge, every lookout on duty and the person's immediate superiors. 

[Rob Randall]

Is it still possible it was an accident and he went out for a secret smoke?

[Mike K.]

A can tell you from experience that when an incident like this happens everyone goes under the microscope. An accidentally drowning would effectively end the career of the Captain, XO, everyone on the bridge, every lookout on duty and the person's immediate superiors.

No, it’s not that dramatic for the superiors, not even remotely.

The bosun is a position that understands the dangers of the outside deck, and Earle has been sailing for 30 years. That entire executive crew aboard Winnipeg is a serious group, their “career” is not the issue when an incident like this happens, accidental or not.