303 replies to this topic

[Nparker]

I'm surprised they don't want to go with a larger footprint.

They are probably doing their best to avoid confrontation with the JBNA from the start. If it were up to me I'd propose a 30-storey tower here (a sort of mini Burj Khalifa or London Shard) and hope to get something decent at half that height approved. If the planned proposal gets modified it won't be any larger than the existing bus depot.

[Mike K.]

If I were a betting man, I would wage Nat Bosa didn't buy the Empress, with all of its surplus land, to have it nicely manicured for time immemorial.

[allstonj]

They are probably doing their best to avoid confrontation with the JBNA from the start. If it were up to me I'd propose a 30-storey tower here (a sort of mini Burj Khalifa or London Shard) and hope to get something decent at half that height approved. If the planned proposal gets modified it won't be any larger than the existing bus depot.

The development isn't in James Bay so why would their input carry any more weight that any other neighbourhood group?

[aastra]

 

...why would their input carry any more weight that any other neighbourhood group?

 

Are you asking a) why should it? Or are you asking b) why does it?

 

Answer Key:

a) it shouldn't

b) good question

[Nparker]

The development isn't in James Bay so why would their input carry any more weight that any other neighbourhood group?

Bosa has already met with the JBNA once. I assume they will have some sort of say in this matter.

[edward_garbo]

i'm new to this thread and site.

why do some think a 10 storey building in this corner fits with anything else on this corner? 

and to have imagined something even higher?

i can't tell if some are joking or serious.

 

in any event, i'm of the mind that this building should be many levels less than the proposed 10 story.

if you're with me on that, let me know. 

thx, EG.

[sebberry]

Welcome to the forum, EG.

[Nparker]

...in any event, I'm of the mind that this building should be many levels less than the proposed 10 story. If you're with me on that, let me know...

What's your reasoning for a building "many levels less" being the best fit? The new seniors residence to be constructed across Belleville will be taller, and the Empress itself is already taller. How does a 10-storey building NOT fit this site?

[lanforod]

15 would seem out of place, I think. 10 doesn't feel too bad, so long as it isn't a fat scraper.

[edward_garbo]

the closest corner of the Motel redux will NOT contain the high-rise.  it is at the far corner eg nearest Blanchard.

 

the closest buildings to the bus depot eg convention centre(s) are not nearly as tall as empress.

 

further, just because the Empress is taller, and at the far end of the property, it shouldn't be written that this height "fits".

 

i'm surprised you'd actually look forward to a tall building on that corner at all.

 

shadows, wind, views, ...they all change with a higher building.  that doesn't bother you?

 

EG

[lanforod]

I think the view will improve, not get worse.

[Nparker]

the closest corner of the Motel redux will NOT contain the high-rise.  it is at the far corner eg nearest Blanchard.

 

the closest buildings to the bus depot eg convention centre(s) are not nearly as tall as empress.

 

further, just because the Empress is taller, and at the far end of the property, it shouldn't be written that this height "fits".

 

i'm surprised you'd actually look forward to a tall building on that corner at all.

 

shadows, wind, views, ...they all change with a higher building.  that doesn't bother you?

 

EG

Does it matter if the tallest portion of Crystal Court redevelopment is at the other end of the block? The RBCM must be nearly as tall as what is planned for the Residences. In addition, this proposal does not exceed the height of the Empress, so sight lines of it are maintained. As for views, one could argue that taking down the Empress would open the view up to the Inner Harbour, as it once existed, Perhaps that should be a priority for this site?

Doesn't it bother you that something as hideous as the bus depot has sat in such a prominent spot for more than 50 years?

[edward_garbo]

i am not sure where i stated that the bus depot should stay, or that it looks nice.

i'm pretty sure i didn't say that.

 

the RBCM is not 10 stories tall. 

 

again, i am left to wonder why one might like the idea of a 10 story building on this corner. 

 

i fully understand why something NICER on this corner should exist.

but there's a lot of very nice commercial builds that are 4 stories, and would allow for street level commerce, and 3 stories of rentals. 

it would look great, and be in keeping with the nearby urban environment.

 

so, i'm still unclear on the allure of 10 storys. 

 

PS yes, it DOES matter that the motel redux has its tall building at the far corner, in the same way any building that is in the distance is a different animal. 

Edited by edward_garbo, 03 May 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[Nparker]

I am not going to get into a pi**ing match over the issue of height. I presume the owners of this property have done their research and know how tall a project is required to ensure that a profit is seen. Once again, the irrational "fear of height" rears its ugly head, when efforts would be much better spent to ensure that a QUALITY project is delivered for this site.

Edited by Nparker, 03 May 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[Rob Randall]

Eight to ten storeys gives the architect more room to create something worthy of the high profile location. Rattenbury himself would agree. A five storey Empress or Legislature would be a sad sight indeed.

Edited by Rob Randall, 03 May 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[Nparker]

I would argue that with the exception of the Crystal Garden & the VCC, every other significant building nearby is close to, if not taller than the proposed height of the Residences.

[nagel]

Poor Ed doesn't know you get treated like a heretic on this forum if you question height.

[Rob Randall]

 
the RBCM is not 10 stories tall.

The tallest building on the RBCM site is 13 floors and we don't know the final height of the new buildings but it could be up to 14.

[Nparker]

If inspiration for the Residences is required I would look directly across the street to the curving sides of the Aria. 

[aastra]

I think 8-10 residential stories is a good height for this. The bus station site is in the back corner of the property and set a bit further back than the Empress itself, so perspective will not be in the new building's favour when viewed from Government/Belleville (same height at the same elevation but set further back = shorter, is the point that I'm making here). By default anything on this site is going to "defer" to the Empress, anyway. Not just because of the positioning but also because the Empress Hotel is massive and regal and quite tall

 

If you make the new building too short then it will disappear, and also the numbers won't be there to allow for a decent design and/or higher-end materials. I don't want it to disappear or to be cheap, because I'm a disciple of that school that says the inner harbour should flaunt grand & impressive architecture. The effect was born in the 1890s with the (now demolished) palatial post office building at the corner of Wharf/Government, and enhanced in increments by the legislative building, the Union Club, the Belmont Building, the Empress Hotel and its subsequent phases, the steamship terminal, the RBCM's Fannin tower, and even the Hotel Grand Pacific (which I'm not crazy about mainly because the architectural style is imitative and rather bland, but at least the building itself has physical presence and isn't trying to be invisible).

 

Summary: I don't want this bus station site to be squandered. I want another impressive and beautiful building, something that equals its peers. Another jewel in the inner harbour's crown, so to speak. Contribute another original element to the overall effect, and don't defer to (or imitate) what's already there.

 

A lot of people don't realize how tall the Empress Hotel is. On the Humboldt Street end the peak is ~60 metres high, which is roughly equivalent to a 17-18 story residential building. The older sections aren't that much shorter, maybe equivalent to 13 residential stories at the lowest point? This is why I think 8-10 stories on the back corner won't present any issues re: competing with the Empress Hotel.

 

 

pic from http://www.travellin...ies/canada.html

Edited by aastra, 07 March 2017 - 05:23 PM.