303 replies to this topic

[sebberry]

i fully understand why something NICER on this corner should exist.

but there's a lot of very nice commercial builds that are 4 stories, and would allow for street level commerce, and 3 stories of rentals. 

it would look great, and be in keeping with the nearby urban environment.

 

 

Why build something great when we can settle for the same mediocrity that's prevalent all over Victoria now? 

[Mike K.]

I never realized it but within a 200 meter radius of this site we have quite a few tall buildings:

 

20-storey Astoria

18-storey Falls

16-storey Marriott Inner Harbour

15-storey Belvedere

15-storey seniors residence proposal

13-storey Fanin Building

13-storey (equiv.) Empress

12-storey Aria 1

12-storey Aria 2

 

A 10-storey building would quite literally fit right in.

[Nparker]

I never realized it but within a 200 meter radius of this site we have quite a few tall buildings...

While I was cogitating on my above response to Mr. Garbo, I did a quick Google Earth look around and came to the same conclusion. There is no good reason not to build a quality, 10-storey residential building at this location.

[aastra]

 

shadows, wind, views, ...they all change with a higher building.  that doesn't bother you?

 

Do you really stress about the massive shadow caused by the Empress Hotel? I've never heard anyone mention it before. The wind thing is pretty much a canard, as we've learned after living through a hundred different development debates. And the view thing... that's critically important as far as I'm concerned. Let's enhance that view.

 

 

the RBCM is not 10 stories tall.

 

Viewed from the north the curatorial tower's double-height window sections create the illusion that the floor count is half what it really is. There are actually two levels within each one of those sections.

Edited by aastra, 03 May 2016 - 01:32 PM.

[aastra]

At the far right edge of this pic (actually a bit beyond it, I think), we're talking about a new building that would be a couple of levels shorter than Aria in the background? (click to enlarge)

 

 

pic from http://www.harbourto...tel/welcome.htm

Edited by aastra, 03 May 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[jonny]

Generalization alert!

 

Victorians seem to have a warped sense of reality when it comes to building heights. A coworker today remarked (in reference to the 819 Yates project) that "it is going to be 16 stories or something ridiculous like that".

 

*shakes head*

 

As we have remarked before, a 10, 15, or 20 story building is "ridiculous" until it is built at which point nobody gives a **** or even seems to remember what previously occupied that space. Seriously, remind somebody where the downtown Romeo's used to be and watch the confusion on their face.

[Mike K.]

I never realized it but within a 200 meter radius of this site we have quite a few tall buildings:

 

20-storey Astoria

18-storey Falls

17-storey DoubleTree Hotel +1

16-storey Marriott Inner Harbour

16-storey Chateau Victoria +1

15-storey Belvedere

15-storey seniors residence proposal

13-storey Fanin Building

13-storey (equiv.) Empress

12-storey Aria 1

12-storey Aria 2

 

A 10-storey building would quite literally fit right in.

 

Oops, we need to add the 17-storey DoubleTree hotel and the 16-storey Chateau Victoria to that list. This brings us to 10 completed highrises and one proposed within a short two-three minute walking distance of the Empress site.

[Nparker]

....This brings us to 10 completed highrises and one proposed within a short two-three minute walking distance of the Empress site.

Therefore we must do whatever is necessary to preserve the low-rise character of the area. 

[VicHockeyFan]

Oops, we need to add the 17-storey DoubleTree hotel and the 16-storey Chateau Victoria to that list. This brings us to 10 completed highrises and one proposed within a short two-three minute walking distance of the Empress site.

 

Don't we have to add the Q Apartments too?

[aastra]

 

...you get treated like a heretic on this forum if you question height.

 

But seriously, in this case we're talking about 10 stories in a prominent/high-value location on freakin' Douglas Street. The height of this building would be well under downtown's very strict height limits. I thought that was normally supposed to be a cause for reassurance? I can understand the position that a tall building might be much too tall, but I really have a hard time with the position that a short building might also be much too tall. The goal posts are constantly being adjusted in this regard. So here we are in the year 2016 and people are actually advocating for neighbourhood-sized 4-story buildings -- the sort of thing that you might see on Oak Bay Avenue or Shelbourne -- on the most prominent downtown sites? Are Victoria's great historic buildings really so vulnerable that we need to go to these extreme lengths to isolate and defend them? Only mice will be allowed to stand next to the elephant, because anything larger might diminish the elephant? It's just not rational.

Edited by aastra, 03 May 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[aastra]

I guarantee you, we do not want a modern building dressed in a cheap Empress Hotel costume. Let's worry more about that.

 

But aastra, at least it's a short building dressed in a cheap Empress Hotel costume!

 

If the building is a dog then nobody will care one bit about whether it might be an inch too tall or too short. If the building doesn't work because of a lousy ground floor or a blank rear face or some other fundamental issue then nobody will care one bit about whether it might be an inch too tall or too short.

 

People focus way too much on height and ignore many more important things.

Edited by aastra, 03 May 2016 - 05:24 PM.

[VicHockeyFan]

Look, if it was this, would it ruin the corner/neighbourhood/city?  I don't think so.

 

[Mike K.]

Don't we have to add the Q Apartments too?

 

Yeah, I suppose so!

[aastra]

 

...if it was this, would it ruin the corner/neighbourhood/city?

 

Too tall.

 

That one would actually make a great replacement for the courthouse, you think?

Edited by aastra, 03 May 2016 - 05:33 PM.

[Nparker]

...But aastra, at least it's a short building dressed in a cheap Empress Hotel costume!..

You mean this: 

Possibly Victoria's darkest architectural period, since the era of the stripping away floors and ornamentation of the 1940s-1960s.

[viccity]

Any updates on this project? It's been more than 2 months!

[Nparker]

Some inspiration (and nightmares for Pam) for the residences at the Empress development?

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...lding-1.3762263

[Rob Randall]

I suspect Pam might say it's not modern enough. She's very finicky but she is the only person at the council table who understands and appreciates modern architecture.

[Nparker]

Not modern enough? You mean she would support a version of the "Gherkin" tower at this location? I seem to recall she wasn't exactly championing the James Bay pyramid proposal.

[aastra]

It would be nice to see Madoff's list of the top 10 modern buildings in Victoria.