21614 replies to this topic

[Cassidy]

They were some sort of neighbours, or at least the shooters estranged wife was, basically a spat over a fence and some rocks according to the local Penticton news.

[Victoria Watcher]

but it seems odd that his estranged wife is hysterical over the neighbours but he kills them.

[Victoria Watcher]

police also do not intend to release the victims' names.  ever it seems.

 

https://www.castanet...-21-.htm#254126

 

The Penticton RCMP say they will not be releasing the names of the victims in Monday’s quadruple homicide, "because there is no operational requirement to further" the investigation.

 

John Brittain, 68, a former City of Penticton engineer is charged with three counts of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree murder.

 

The indictment states that the first count involves the shooting of R.W., identified by family as Rudi Winter, who was killed while pruning a tree on Lakeview Street.

 

Court documents identify the remaining three victims as B.W., S.W. and D.K.

 

Land title records for the two homes involved in the shooting scene on Cornwall Drive indicate one of the homes is owned by Susan and Barry Wonch. The other home involved in the crime scene is owned by a woman named Darlene Knippelberg.

 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 16 April 2019 - 04:42 PM.

[mbjj]

I thought I heard the names mentioned last night on Global, but perhaps not. It was the couple.

[Victoria Watcher]

they might have been. media used land title records matched with initials used on legal criminal charge documents to come up with names.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 17 April 2019 - 07:50 AM.

[Mike K.]

🔸Langford shooting suspect arrested following collision with crashed vehicle🔸

On April 23rd 2019 at approximately 11 am, the West Shore RCMP responded to a report of a shooting that took place outdoors near the Happy Valley Market located at 3431 Happy Valley Rd in Langford.

Police believe there were two vehicles involved in this incident and both fled the scene southbound on Happy Valley Rd.

Police were already investigating an unrelated collision that took place at Kelly Rd and Veterans Memorial Parkway, when one of the suspect vehicles, a white Kia SUV crashed into the existing collision.

As our officers were already on scene, they were able to quickly and safely arrest one suspect as well as seize a firearm from the vehicle, said Cst. Saggar, West Shore RCMP Media Liaison Officer.

The second vehicle, a brown Cadillac sedan was recovered on Leila Rd in Colwood. Police are still trying to determine what is the involvement of the second vehicle and it’s occupant(s).

Police would like to speak to the occupant(s) of the brown Cadillac sedan and ensure their well-being.

One occupant of the brown Cadillac sedan is described as being a Caucasian male in his 30’s who was last seen on foot in the area of Royal Colwood Golf Club. We are asking the occupant(s) of the brown Cadillac sedan to come forward and speak to us, we need to know if you are okay, said Cst. Saggar, West Shore RCMP Media Liaison Officer.

At this time investigators believe this is a targeted and isolated incident. At this point there is nothing to connect this incident to another shooting that happened in Langford approximately 2 weeks ago.

If you have information regarding this incident please call 911 immediately to report what you know. You can also report anonymously through Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477.

[Rob Randall]

Just to confirm, that's a brown Caddie sedan, not a yellow one, correct?

[jonny]

The Oak Bay police have royally ****ed up this Andrew Berry case and we're only like 3 days into the trial. There has never been a better case for amalgamation than the cross examination of Constable Ulanowski. Have these podunk yokels never watched a cop show on TV?

[Victoria Watcher]

The Oak Bay police have royally ****ed up this Andrew Berry case and we're only like 3 days into the trial. There has never been a better case for amalgamation than the cross examination of Constable Ulanowski. Have these podunk yokels never watched a cop show on TV?

 

let me show you the other side.

 

do police often come upon child murder scenes where the suspect has had time to escape?  yes.  do they still solve/convict most?  yes.

 

what if the "killer" in this case left 4 minutes 40 minutes or 400 minutes before police arrived (rather than the 5-minute window the defence suggests)?  would you consider the case unsolvable?  remember in this case there was no report of a crime in progress.  police just went there on a wellness check.

 

we have yet to hear the evidence on the time of death for the girls.   we will never really have an exact "time of injury" for the suspect since he is/was still alive when police arrived.

 

of course the defence is playing all cards available.  that's their job.  build doubt. 

 

but when the suspect does not take the stand - or takes the stand and says he has no memory of events -  this will likely tell you more about this case.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 April 2019 - 04:06 AM.

[Mike K.]

They’re grasping at straws trying to get the witness to slip up. It’s par for the course in a case where the defence has a mountain to climb and the smallest details are exaggerated, like the movement of an object inside the home when firemen were treating the man.

Yes, defence team, because moving a piece of furniture in order to extricate a dying individual will throw the case.

Or the nonsense about the door. Stuff was strewn all about the apartment, and the defence doesn’t believe a single item may have hindered the first officer’s entrance into the place, let alone multiple items. For if they admit/accept that something obstructed the door as per the officer’s testimony, how could a fleeing suspect have accomplished that? Furthermore, I think the defence made a little too much out of the officer tracking blood into the hallway and have setup the prosecutors point out that if an officer tracked blood, a fleeing suspect wouldn’t have?

All that being said, what we’re gleening all of this from is through the lens of reporters, which judging by the discrepancies in their quotes they are infusing mistakes into their retelling of the proceedings.

[Victoria Watcher]

the moving of something behind the door speaks to whether anyone left the apartment before the police arrived. if there was a door blockage whoever or whatever blocked that door did not leave after blockage put in place. that’s to try to point to the killer as never leaving the home.

[Mike K.]

Exactly. Insinuating, as the defence did, that Ulanowski is lying when he says the door was obstructed, is a desperate move designed to cast doubt.

Ulanowski, btw, was a relatively recent addition to the force at the time of the murder, but not a rookie cop.

[Cassidy]

As much as it pains me severely to read these questions from the defence (in light of the two little girls), the simple truth is that all Canadians are entitled to as rigorous a defence as can possibly be mustered by their legal team.

 

There are no limitations on where the defence can go with their defence strategy, and as much as most folks reading the details will understand that the officers actions didn't have any direct effect on the lives of the two little girls, the defence has rightly made their point that there was definitely some sloppy police behaviour in/on/around the scene of what most understand now to be a double murder/attempted suicide.

 

Each element of doubt the defence manages to cast will require the prosecution to address a specific response to it in order to demonstrate its lack of validation in defence of the accused, the same accused who we as internet pundits already know is guilty of murdering his two daughters ... but who is remains innocent until proven guilty while inside a court of law, and prior to the finding of the judge/jury.

[Mike K.]

Or double murder, with an attempted murder.

[Mike K.]

Get a load of the discrepancies here.

 

A friend sent me the following from the TC and Black Press.

 

TC: “I’m not the lead investigator in this,” said Ulanowski. “I’m just the guy who showed up at the front door and found dead children.”

 

BP:“How? I’m not the lead investigator on this,” said Ulanowski. “I’m just the guy that showed up at the front door and found bloody children.”

 

 

TC:  “This is uncomfortable because I got to reference dead kids,” the officer rebutted. “They remind me of my own kids. That’s why this is difficult. The only thing I wanted to do that night is go home to my children.”

 

BP: “This is uncomfortable because I have to reference dead kids, that remind me of my own kids. That’s why this is difficult,” Ulanowski retorted.

 

 

TC:“Anything else you want to add?” asked McCullough, then raised his voice: “You realize he’s on trial for murder, don’t you?” [Did the TC not hear the "No, I'm fine" comment following McCullough's question?]

 

BP:When Ulanowski said “No, I’m fine,” McCullough raised his voice and blasted,”You realize he’s on trial for murder, don’t you?”

[Cassidy]

Or double murder, with an attempted murder.

Well, I'll just note that it would be highly uncommon for an attempted murder victim to verbally say to the first responders "kill me" and "just leave me alone" - this after spending hours looking up methods of committing suicide on their computer (uncommon, but not impossible, which is the defences point).

 

As I noted in my post above, a vigorous defence is a right of every Canadian accused of a crime, and the defence in this case is doing an excellent job in obliging the prosecution to address every single discrepancy the defence can bring forward.

Edited by Cassidy, 24 April 2019 - 06:33 AM.

[Cassidy]

Get a load of the discrepancies here.

 

It's a good thing the court maintains an accurate transcription of events.

When this is all done, and those transcriptions are made available ... either the TC or Black Press is going to suffer some credibility hits.

 

It's possible too that both the TC and BP are reporting quite different things than what is actually being said on the courtroom floor, which for folks who've ever "lived" through an actual situation that is later reported in the press, won't come as a surprise.

[Victoria Watcher]

you are right Cassidy.

I also expect the defence to bring up the fact a random-victim machete madman - as yet not caught - has also worked that part of south oak bay.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 April 2019 - 06:43 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

It's a good thing the court maintains an accurate transcription of events.
When this is all done, and those transcriptions are made available ... either the TC or Black Press is going to suffer some credibility hits.

It's possible too that both the TC and BP are reporting quite different things than what is actually being said on the courtroom floor, which for folks who've ever "lived" through an actual situation that is later reported in the press, won't come as a surprise.

right. with no transcripts and no recording device that have to memorize every word. that’s impossible. but maybe don’t use actual quotes then.

the difference between bloody children and dead children will mean different things to potential future juries if this has to be retried.

[Mike K.]

One sentence, three different words, one of which is strikingly different than the other (bloody vs. dead).

The entire coverage is tarnished here. And what’s worse, is if you don’t watch the feed for yourself down at the courthouse you have no idea who’s got it wrong and whose got it ...very wrong ...since I suspect neither organization has a 100% accuracy rate in the quotes identified in the post above.