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BC Minimum Wage Increase Offcially Announced This Morning


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#61 jonny

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

We have already established that very, very few people earn the minimum wage. Very, very few single parents are trying to support a child or children on a minimum wage job. 

 

Most minimum wage earners are young workers. Many minimum wage earners work in industries where significant gratuities are earned. 

 

The single parent scenario should be (and is currently) abated through other means, not a blanket increase in the cost of employing unskilled labour. 


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#62 FirstTimeHomeCrier

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

You didnt answer my question....have you ever owned a business? do you know what it takes to make payroll?

 

No, I haven't, and I have no interest in owning a business. I just think if you can tell a worker to pull up their bootstraps, but you can't tell a business owner the same, there's a flaw in your politics.


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#63 Star Dust

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:03 AM


 

Do you really think a surgeon is just as valuable as a high school dropout? From a labour perspective? Really? Maybe they're just as valuable as a person, but as a worker? Absolutely not.  

 

 

 

Yes.........I do.

 

And I will tell you why: 

 

A surgeon may be able to open you up and fix your insides and make them work,

 

but that uneducated person who dropped out of high school  can open up the hood of that surgeons sports car and fix it's insides and make it work.  You see?


Edited by Star Dust, 09 February 2018 - 11:08 AM.


#64 rjag

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:12 AM

No, I haven't, and I have no interest in owning a business. I just think if you can tell a worker to pull up their bootstraps, but you can't tell a business owner the same, there's a flaw in your politics.

 

The 'flaw' is actually your own statement. If a business is not performing well the customers go elsewhere, the business either adapts or dies. If a business does not treat its employees well then the employees will leave and the employer will have to invest more time to constantly train and hire replacements. 

 

Some folks are born to it while lots arent. Some work hard and its a success, many work hard and it fails. 

 

Do you think a teacher has the right to tell you to stop playing on your phone and put a bit more effort into your work it will improve your output? Do you think the student should tell the teacher the same?

 

Have you ever seen an employee in a government job being told to stop slacking? Have you seen them say the same to their boss?


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#65 jonny

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

Yes.........I do.

 

And I will tell you why: 

 

A surgeon may be able to open you up and fix your insides and make them work,

 

but that uneducated person who dropped out of high school  can open up the hood of that surgeons sports car and fix it's insides and make it work.  You see?

 

A mechanic is not uneducated, they are highly skilled. A mechanic is not earning minimum wage. 


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#66 rjag

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

Yes.........I do.

 

And I will tell you why: 

 

A surgeon may be able to open you up and fix your insides and make them work,

 

but that uneducated person who dropped out of high school  can open up the hood of that surgeons sports car and fix it's insides and make it work.  You see?

 

 

And that mechanic will make $45+ an hour if they are anywhere half decent and go home every night not worrying about whether the patient will survive or if you could have done something different to improve the outcome....

 

Every person has something to contribute and no person should feel disrespected. It doesnt mean the surgeon should feel guilt because they drive a nice car and live in a nice house...

 

I totally agree with you that people deserve a decent wage (notice I didnt say entitled) but I totally disagree with your generalization that employers are all bad and are all to be vilified...



#67 Star Dust

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:23 AM

 

but I totally disagree with your generalization that employers are all bad and are all to be vilified...

 

Please copy and paste where I said or generalized that "Employers are ALL bad and should be vilified?"



#68 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:25 AM

No, I haven't, and I have no interest in owning a business. I just think if you can tell a worker to pull up their bootstraps, but you can't tell a business owner the same, there's a flaw in your politics.

 

The largest employer of low-wage employees in North America is also the one that has the largest market share of customers.  Walmart.

 

No flaw in their business model.  They strive to give you the lowest price possible.  North Americans overwhelmingly reward them with their business.

 

For every dollar you save by shopping at Walmart, you add them together and suddenly you have enough for a trip to Mexico.  Where your servants will be paid much, much less.  And consumers are just fine with this, by and large.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 09 February 2018 - 11:28 AM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#69 FirstTimeHomeCrier

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:25 AM

The 'flaw' is actually your own statement. If a business is not performing well the customers go elsewhere, the business either adapts or dies. If a business does not treat its employees well then the employees will leave and the employer will have to invest more time to constantly train and hire replacements. 

 

Some folks are born to it while lots arent. Some work hard and its a success, many work hard and it fails. 

 

Do you think a teacher has the right to tell you to stop playing on your phone and put a bit more effort into your work it will improve your output? Do you think the student should tell the teacher the same?

 

Have you ever seen an employee in a government job being told to stop slacking? Have you seen them say the same to their boss?

 

If a teacher is playing on their phone instead of teaching, then a student should absolutely call the teacher out. And there actually are many systems in place within the public service that allow employees to demand accountability from their superiors.


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#70 Star Dust

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:28 AM

A mechanic is not uneducated, they are highly skilled. A mechanic is not earning minimum wage. 

 

I think you missed the point of the illustration...................

 

The point was this:  Why does the surgeon make a 6 figure income to fix the inside of a person and the mechanic far less to fix the inside of a car?

 

What each of them do is equally valuable.  Both of their professions fix things that are broken that need to be fixed, both of their professions can save lives and prevent death.



#71 VicHockeyFan

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:30 AM

I think you missed the point of the illustration...................

 

The point was this:  Why does the surgeon make a 6 figure income to fix the inside of a person and the mechanic far less to fix the inside of a car?

 

What each of them do is equally valuable.  Both of their professions fix things that are broken that need to be fixed, both of their professions can save lives and prevent death.

 

Because surgeons have a higher level and years of education, and are more rare.  There are more mechanics willing and qualified to work for $45/hour than there are surgeons qualified and willing to work for $45/hour.  So the wage they command is much higher.

 

There is no shortage of karaoke singers willing to give a free public performance.   So they do not get paid to perform.  There are very, very. very few performers that have a high talent level and a work ethic to get them to the super-star level.  That's just the way it is.  I'd hate to think that we'd pay karaoke performers a living wage.


Edited by VicHockeyFan, 09 February 2018 - 11:34 AM.

<p><span style="font-size:12px;"><em><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I don’t need a middle person in my pizza slice transaction" <strong>- zoomer, April 17, 2018</strong></span></em></span>

#72 Matt R.

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:33 AM

But how many are making more than $15.20?


About half.

Matt.
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#73 Star Dust

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:34 AM

Because surgeons have a higher level and years of education, and are more rare.  There are more mechanics willing and qualified to work for $45/hour than there are surgeons qualified and willing to work for $45/hour.  So the wage they command is much higher.

 

Again.........I don't believe a persons education (Regardless of how long it took them to get it or how much they spent to get it) Makes them any "Better" or any more 'Valuable" then the person who didn't.



#74 spanky123

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:35 AM

Have you ever been a single parent trying to support a family on minimum wage? You should try it one day.

 

There are lots of people in society who, due to no fault of their own, wind up in situations that need support.

 

The point being made here is that Government interference in a free market economy always ends badly for those they are trying to help. 135K part time employees (the highest number ever recorded in Canada) just lost their jobs in one month. I would hazard a guess that many of those were the very people the minimum wage hike was supposed to assist. The taxpayer will now pay hundreds of millions of dollars in support to those people when had that money been spent in things like child care assistance, skills development and coaching those same people would have been far better off.


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#75 lanforod

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:35 AM

The next time you need surgery, we can provide you a mechanic to do it.


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#76 rjag

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:41 AM

Please copy and paste where I said or generalized that "Employers are ALL bad and should be vilified?"

 

 

Thats why I used the word generalization....your perspective indicates that you consider employers in general to be bad

 

 

You have got to be kidding..........I worked harder then any boss I ever had for years making minimum wage. Minimum wage workers are often the hardest working people in all of society.

 

Trust me when I was making minimum wage, and my boss was sitting up in his office making 10 times my annual income to sit behind a desk and do nothing all day long......I would say that he was not "Working Hard" for his income. He was simply "Entitled To It" right?  He had his pretty clothes and his fancy cars, and laughed all the way to the bank, while I was living in a room with a hot plate, eating hot dogs, and having to share a bathroom with everyone else that lived in the building.

 


Edited by rjag, 09 February 2018 - 11:41 AM.


#77 jonny

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:43 AM

I think you missed the point of the illustration...................

 

The point was this:  Why does the surgeon make a 6 figure income to fix the inside of a person and the mechanic far less to fix the inside of a car?

 

What each of them do is equally valuable.  Both of their professions fix things that are broken that need to be fixed, both of their professions can save lives and prevent death.

 

LOL....OK then...

 

Clearly you are out to lunch and not in tune with reality at all. The output of surgeons and mechanics is obviously of differing economic value in every conceivable way. 



#78 Matt R.

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:43 AM

WTF is a living wage?


A local restaurant owner is importing some temporary foreign cooks. He has to pay them the provincial average hourly wage, which is apparently $23 an hour. That’s crazy to me. Maybe if you are importing sous chefs, not just line cooks. How’s that going to jive with the cook next to him or her making $7 less? We’ll see I guess.

Matt.

#79 spanky123

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:51 AM

LOL....OK then...

 

Clearly you are out to lunch and not in tune with reality at all. The output of surgeons and mechanics is obviously of differing economic value in every conceivable way. 

 

The simple explanation is that wages and workers will always meet an equilibrium. If there are too many qualified workers then wages will remain low, if not then wages will increase until the demand is met. Has nothing to do with years of education (other than that reduces the available labour pool).


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#80 spanky123

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:55 AM

I would think that the corporate winners here are the "shared economy" players like Uber. As companies will struggle to pay their workers an increased base salary, the "sharing economy" companies have no such issues. Their "workers" are all self-employed and thus not subject to minimum wage or benefit rules. 

 

Seems strange to me that these workers all seem quite happy to be making their net $5 - $10 an hour wages yet the same people believe that if Timmies is only paying them $12 an hour they are being ripped off by corporate Canada!


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