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City of Victoria | 2018-2022 | Mayor and council general discussion


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#8061 mbjj

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 03:51 PM

Someone who used to work for the city says council gives direction, planning dept. thinks about it (many are fanatics), then they consult with the" Yay, let's all bike group." The closure by the cathedral of Rockland Ave. was one of their first achievements. 


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#8062 rjag

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 05:05 PM

Someone who used to work for the city says council gives direction, planning dept. thinks about it (many are fanatics), then they consult with the" Yay, let's all bike group." The closure by the cathedral of Rockland Ave. was one of their first achievements. 

 

Seems about right. There has been quite an exodus of senior management in the last 5 years. As with any business you tend to surround yourself with people who will fulfill your mandate. No different here.  



#8063 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 05:50 PM

Here’s an article from CTV re: the reaction against Dubow and the mayor’s response:

https://vancouverisl...-trip-1.5319644

#8064 spanky123

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:09 PM

^ Trying to wrap my head around this. So the Mayor is apologizing for stating Dubow's actions were "disappointing and irresponsible" because apparently white supremacist websites and hate groups used her words to target him. 

 

Even if I accepted that what she is saying is true, how can anyone possibly construe what she said as being racist? Apparently because she is white in a position of power she should not be criticizing others. Does that mean if you are non-white then only non-white people can say anything?


Edited by spanky123, 22 February 2021 - 06:14 PM.

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#8065 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:23 PM

She has learned her words were seized upon by white supremacist websites and social media groups online

 

 

 

huh?



#8066 Rob Randall

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 06:53 PM

The way hate works is that the hater picks the most obvious physical attribute of the victim. Even if we achieved that wonderful state where racism was completely erased haters would just move on to another obvious visible attribute--weight, height, sexual preference, baldness, clothing style etc etc etc.

 

But we can't avoid criticizing just because it might encourage someone to make an offensive comment. You can't control that.

 

But shame on the critics that chose race-based words. That's just stupid. To hell with those people.


Edited by Rob Randall, 22 February 2021 - 06:55 PM.

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#8067 Kapten Kapsell

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 07:11 PM

Here's the thing- racists and bigots are not rational.  If the mayor says something positive about a councillor of colour (example:  the mayor praises the committee work of Councillor Thorton-Joe),  online trolls could also twist those words of praise into a statement of mockery.  If the mayor had stayed silent about Dubow's trip, then racists could have latched on that silence and used it to allege 'preferential treatment' or something along those lines.  So regardless of anything the mayor said - or didn't say- her words (or silence) can be co-opted by online trolls driven by hate. 
 

So shame on the haters who went after Dubow with racially-motivated comments.   He obviously should not have travelled (and admitted as much), but similar lapses in judgment were committed by many others who are not of African descent.   Dubow's racial background had nothing to do with his mistake; such mistakes can be made by anyone of *any race*.  


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#8068 rmpeers

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 10:45 PM

A good outcome from this might be if Dubow could reflect on bigotry directed against him and ask how police officers felt about his defending people saying "all cops are bastards."

#8069 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 22 February 2021 - 11:42 PM

But shame on the critics that chose race-based words. That's just stupid. To hell with those people.

 

has anyone seen the evidence?  where are these white supremacy websites and social media channels that are talking about dubow?


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#8070 max.bravo

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 01:21 AM

^I think I found one. No explicit mention of race, but it appears to be conservative news, so perhaps white supremacy is implied (according to the TV crowd)?

https://thebreaker.n...us-vacationers/

#8071 max.bravo

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 02:06 AM

Here’s some racism: https://mobile.twitt...47/with_replies

#8072 Mike K.

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 05:16 AM

Google has strict guidelines on who can qualify to use their advertising platforms and services. Since The Breaker uses Google Ads, I have to question the white supremacy claim. Google isn’t stupid, and their algorithms aren’t Mickey Mouse. If an agenda of that nature exists, the network terminates its relationship with the publisher.

It’s also published by this guy: https://thetyee.ca/Bios/Bob_Mackin/ Did The Tyee have a white supremacist in their midst circa 2008-2016? As did the Vancouver Courier? The New York Times? If so, there’s your news story of the year. Maybe even decade.

The article above begins with Dubow because it gives him the distinction of travelling the furthest of any Canadian politician, and the circumstances of his trip were mired in controversy, had several explanations, were a surprise to the mayor, and generated a substantial outpouring of criticism on the heels of a very contentious by-election. He also chose not to resign while others did for travel much closer to Canada. Then the article goes on to describe the travels of (it looks like) all other politicians.
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#8073 spanky123

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:13 AM

^I think I found one. No explicit mention of race, but it appears to be conservative news, so perhaps white supremacy is implied (according to the TV crowd)?

https://thebreaker.n...us-vacationers/

 

Except the very next para they also criticize a white politician for doing the same thing!



#8074 spanky123

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:26 AM

Google has strict guidelines on who can qualify to use their advertising platforms and services. Since The Breaker uses Google Ads, I have to question the white supremacy claim. Google isn’t stupid, and their algorithms aren’t Mickey Mouse. If an agenda of that nature exists, the network terminates its relationship with the publisher.

 

From what I can tell, Mayor Helps' comments are verbatim what one of the speakers stated at the council meeting. The speaker, Gina Mowatt, is an activist who is also, wait for it, a UVIC Phd candidate.  Gina said she wanted to address the council motion to request that Dubow resign. From what I can tell, there was no motion for Dubow to resign, one of the speakers ahead of her was on the agenda to state his opinion (like her). What I find interesting though is that the agenda came out with both names on it, how would Gina know that the other speaker would be there for her to offer a counterpoint?!

 

In any event, Gina made a number of claims (ie white supremacy, hate groups, etc) that she did not offer any support for, and it looks like the Mayor just regurgitated them in her blog. The nut seems to be that you don't have to make racist comments to be considered racist, just questioning the actions of a person of a different background then you is sufficient. 


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#8075 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:29 AM

 

account started in december 2020.  0 followers or following.  no original tweets.

 

and pretty inoffensive stuff too.



#8076 rjag

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:53 AM

 

Created Dec 2020, 0 followers.

 

Not exactly a hotbed platform of racism, more like an a$$hole troll


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#8077 rjag

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 07:57 AM

What amazes me is that they only focus on right wing extremism and racism.

Some of the worst racists I have experienced personally are left wing nutbars.

 

Victoria has quite a few and yet they get a hall pass as their racism is anti-semitism which seems to be acceptable in many hard core leftist circles


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#8078 Rob Randall

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:08 AM

^Are you sure you're not conflating antisemitism with legitimate criticism of Israel's right-wing government? Put another way, if I rail against the North Korean government doesn't mean I harbour any prejudice against Koreans. Because accusing lefties of racism any time they criticize Bibi is pretty common.


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#8079 rjag

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:11 AM

^Are you sure you're not conflating antisemitism with legitimate criticism of Israel's right-wing government? Put another way, if I rail against the North Korean government doesn't mean I harbour any prejudice against Koreans. Because accusing lefties of racism any time they criticize Bibi is pretty common.

 

No. They freely walk among us and use the excuse of a 'right wing' government as justification for their uninformed misplaced hatred


Edited by rjag, 23 February 2021 - 08:16 AM.


#8080 Rob Randall

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Posted 23 February 2021 - 08:23 AM

Wow, you lost me there. 


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