11779 replies to this topic

[zoomer]

I can't remember the last time a baby seal directly communicated about the actions of a City of Victoria councillor. To be fair, this may have occurred, but I'll rely on Aastra or Rob to do the research in the Times-Colonist archive.

It feels rather dismissive and 'white privilege' for the City of Victoria or fellow councillors to not reply and ignore the letter from the Pacheedaht First Nation.

I don't know if muttering to friends and neighbours "oh that's just crazy Ben, nevermind him" is sufficient considering the official title and roles Mr. Isitt holds.

[Victoria Watcher]

an answer to the letter seems prudent.

[sebberry]

Isn't that what Andrew is saying though? In response to the Pacheedaht First Nation complaints about Issit, it sounds like Andrew is acknowledging their concern and saying we will/should mind our own business and stick to our jurisdiction?

Hey, I'm not sure there are too many people left in this world who support logging old growth, but I'm getting a little tired of all these white settlers ignoring the rights of First Nations to make decisions about their land use. It's a long standing colonial tactic to support First Nations when they make decisions you agree with and when they don't claim the decision goes against the will of their people, or evil capitalism/desperate oppressed people who don't know any better. Left wing/environmental racism isn't any better than right wing racism. This paternalistic perspective runs deep in the traditional green movement, just look at the Green Party - the least diverse political party there is.

 

Some salmon would like to have a chat with you.  

[spanky123]

an answer to the letter seems prudent.

 

When did the FN write to the CoV asking for comment?

[Victoria Watcher]

they very recently wrote a letter asking Victoria to butt out. a letter saying “will do” seems appropriate.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 July 2021 - 02:40 PM.

[punk cannonballer]

Isn't that what Andrew is saying though? In response to the Pacheedaht First Nation complaints about Issit, it sounds like Andrew is acknowledging their concern and saying we will/should mind our own business and stick to our jurisdiction?

Hey, I'm not sure there are too many people left in this world who support logging old growth, but I'm getting a little tired of all these white settlers ignoring the rights of First Nations to make decisions about their land use. It's a long standing colonial tactic to support First Nations when they make decisions you agree with and when they don't claim the decision goes against the will of their people, or evil capitalism/desperate oppressed people who don't know any better. Left wing/environmental racism isn't any better than right wing racism. This paternalistic perspective runs deep in the traditional green movement, just look at the Green Party - the least diverse political party there is.

 

It's not an easy thing. Logging old growth was fine 500 years ago when there were 50,000 people on the coast. It was sustainable. Is it responsible to continue traditional practices as if you lived in a vacuum? If the world around you hadn't changed? It's a genuinely tough issue and I don't know the answer. But, at some point we have to find middle ground with these things - conservation and prosperity for everyone doesn't seem to have to be mutually exclusive.

Edited by punk cannonballer, 22 July 2021 - 02:47 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

old growth just for the sake of old growth doesn’t provide much value.

on the other hand it’s the best and most profitable lumber. if you replace it with 2nd growth does it matter so much from an aesthetic point of view?

[punk cannonballer]

The logging of old growth is more about removing the total ecological value of the area. It is much more established and diverse.

[Victoria Watcher]

yes but can’t you add it back in the 2nd?

we’ve got oodles of forest.

[zoomer]

It's not an easy thing. Logging old growth was fine 500 years ago when there were 50,000 people on the coast. It was sustainable. Is it responsible to continue traditional practices as if you lived in a vacuum? If the world around you hadn't changed? It's a genuinely tough issue and I don't know the answer. But, at some point we have to find middle ground with these things - conservation and prosperity for everyone doesn't seem to have to be mutually exclusive.

Good points Punk CB - I don't disagree. I just know that I won't be lecturing the Pacheedaht First Nation on conservation.

[Sparky]

^^^^ Did the First Nations have an axe or a saw in 1521?

[Victoria Watcher]

they probably just used downed trees for what they needed.

[Rob Randall]

^No, they developed a technique that slowly burns away a controlled area at the base of the tree.

[spanky123]

they very recently wrote a letter asking Victoria to butt out. a letter saying “will do” seems appropriate.

They wrote a letter asking the CRD to butt out.

[spanky123]

Good points Punk CB - I don't disagree. I just know that I won't be lecturing the Pacheedaht First Nation on conservation.

Don’t know why not. Most FN have demonstrated that they are no different then the white man when it comes to destroying ecology to make a buck.

[Stephen Andrew]

Steven Andrew put forward a motion to "write to the Pacheedaht First Nation acknowledging and respecting its right govern its own assets, to reaffirm the city's goal to engage in respectful and open dialogue towards reconciliation."

Strikes me as an extremely petty move.

It intended as anything other than to illustrate the majority of Victoria Council supports and respects the right for the Pacheedaht First Nation to manage its own resources.

There was a letter from Chief Jones to CRD, but a response to that letter was written in City of Victoria letterhead.

I, and - obviously - all of my fellow councillors wanted the Pacheedaht to know where we stood and there was no tacit acceptance of one councillor’s actions.

It was a simple statement.

[Sparky]

^ Thanks for that Stephen.

[spanky123]

I, and - obviously - all of my fellow councillors wanted the Pacheedaht to know where we stood and there was no tacit acceptance of one councillor’s actions.
 

 

I don't support Ben on most issues but this last part seems petty. I expect councilors to spend their time building bridges and not using resources to attack their competitors.

[Awaiting Juno]

How is it, that this council can get away with eroding accessibility in this city? How do they sleep at night, making those with the least access in this city fight to retain what bits of access they enjoyed? First they took use of Beacon Hill Park away for the vast majority of residents during the year where the park was abused as a 24/7 sheltering facility and now, they're refusing to restore access and singling out those who do not enjoy the same mobility privileges as others. A progressive council would seek to maintain and improve accessibility for residents by identifying where it is lacking and working to alleviate the issues - this one takes what is accessible and makes it less accessible while doing very little to improve accessibility elsewheres.

 

2022 - we need to vote differently.

[sebberry]

How is it, that this council can get away with eroding accessibility in this city? How do they sleep at night, making those with the least access in this city fight to retain what bits of access they enjoyed? First they took use of Beacon Hill Park away for the vast majority of residents during the year where the park was abused as a 24/7 sheltering facility and now, they're refusing to restore access and singling out those who do not enjoy the same mobility privileges as others. A progressive council would seek to maintain and improve accessibility for residents by identifying where it is lacking and working to alleviate the issues - this one takes what is accessible and makes it less accessible while doing very little to improve accessibility elsewheres.

 

2022 - we need to vote differently.

 

 

Look, they don't care.  It's war against the car at all cost.  

 

People have been forced to forfeit decades of tradition to accommodate this council's ideology.  It's sad.