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BC's Sergeant-at-Arms and Clerk of the Legislative Assembly placed on leave


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#501 spanky123

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 10:21 AM

Yeah I can log onto my work account anywhere and have access to everything so no one that I know is storing stuff on a hard drive. The govt already puts tons of monitoring software on computers so not sure what would be gained here.

 

Although you may be using web apps, many of them store backups or offline copies of the data on your hard drive even though you may not be aware of it. Many corporate systems also have local admin account set up in the event that an administrator needs access to the system even if the file system is encrypted.

 

As a result, it is entirely possible that an administrator can clone your hard drive and then access a lot more information then you think that they would be able to. Not saying that is happening here, but Plecas wouldn't be having a security firm doing the backups if there was nothing of value to be obtained.



#502 NancySpungen

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:01 AM

The Speaker asked two senior officers of the legislature if he could mirror their drives, and they said yes. He copied those, and his own. They have been secured --off-site. This was undertaken because information has disappeared, including over a month of the Speaker's emails.

I am still laughing at Spencer Sproule for sleeping in the offices overnight to "safeguard" their computers. What do they have to hide? 

 

There is a lot to be troubled by in this saga, but not Plecas' actions to date.

FIrst, the way media jumped all over the fact that Ryan-Lloyd was seen in tears, deciding that this must be because of the Speaker's. The woman has been performing two jobs for 6 months now, and she's probably exhausted. If you knew anyone who worked as a legislative assistant in the Liberal caucus, you would see the irony in Wilkinson shouting the "women" were being bullied. "Senior" women, as he put it, as though seeing women in junior positions in tears was a different issue.

How about the way that the "reporters" jumped all over Polak's notes like they were a recording of the meeting? Just because something is written down, it doesn't mean that it was actually said, or if did, that it wasn't taken out of context. She has a personal grudge against Plecas for becoming Speaker. It's obvious. No fact checking, no substantiation of what actually happened. Lazy reporting. 

I was amused when Liberals said they would offer a candidate to take over the Speaker's role and suggested that Horgan should get rid of him. They clearly don't even know enough to read the legislation and standing orders attached to the office. Besides, they had someone in that role, but he resigned when Clark decided to leave, thinking they could force the then opposition to put someone up. That backfired badly when Plecas decided that it was more important to get the legislature moving again and took the role. Their response was to kick him out of caucus. They want control the office back, because they are terrified about what the other investigations will show, and you know what?

Some of them should be.



 


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#503 NancySpungen

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:18 AM

Poll:
 

What happened at the leg. what Plecas uncovered, was criminal: Yes/No

We won't know that until the SPs release their findings, but I don't think we are looking at a few civil torts here :)

 

Copying harddrives is the same as installing software that logs every key a person types and unknown to the person who is typing:  Yes/No

No. Not when the drives in question were copied with permission and the subsequent handling of the data is made clear.


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#504 Torrontes

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 11:31 AM

Well Nancy, it would appear that you have joined VV to justify the actions of Mr. Plecas and Mr. Mullen. Is it possible that there might be some self interest at play?

 

BTW, interesting choice of handle. A shame that both you and Sid came to untimely ends.



#505 spanky123

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 12:31 PM

Thanks for the insight. I would point out though that asking subordinates if you can copy their drives isn't consent. What are they going to say?

 

If there was a concern over emails being deleted then the simple remedy is to make sure that whatever mail server you are using archives all messages (assuming that isn't already happening).



#506 dasmo

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 12:34 PM

Asking for consent and then receiving it is consent. They could say no. 



#507 spanky123

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 12:55 PM

Asking for consent and then receiving it is consent. They could say no. 

 

The same argument was used when male bosses preyed on young female staff.



#508 VIResident

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 01:11 PM

Well Nancy, it would appear that you have joined VV to justify the actions of Mr. Plecas and Mr. Mullen. Is it possible that there might be some self interest at play?

 

BTW, interesting choice of handle. A shame that both you and Sid came to untimely ends.

I've been around VV for a while now and I'm backing Plecas 100%.  Not agreeing with you or a majority of VV members on this topic isn't a path towards anything other than....we don't agree with you.  Proof is in the pudding, lets see what Plecas comes up with shall we?  Seems to me his record is crystal clear and produces results... for the taxpayer. 



#509 dasmo

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 01:41 PM

The same argument was used when male bosses preyed on young female staff.

Completely unrelated. Plus there is reasonable expectation of privacy at play here. This is a hard drive in a work environment not a violation of someones bodily autonomy or physiological well being. 


Edited by dasmo, 03 June 2019 - 01:42 PM.


#510 Torrontes

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 02:43 PM

  1. vigilante: 
     
    a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

 

Improper spending cannot be condoned, but the speaker running around acting as his own investigator is certainly not in accordance with due process or natural justice, and should be curtailed. 

I thought an audit by an out-of-province auditor was to be undertaken.

 

As to the consent to copy, that is a joke. It was like "consent, or you will be under suspicion of participating in a conspiracy to defraud."



#511 dasmo

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 03:08 PM

"Administrative Duties
The Speaker is also the head of the House of Commons Administration and is responsible for its overall direction and management."

I would say as a manager they have every right preserve possible evidence of steeling by duplicating hard drives before they can be altered. Especially if he asks for consent. Can you specifically point out the legal violation that he has made? 

Here is the applicable law  https://laws-lois.ju...-8.6/index.html


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#512 VIResident

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:50 PM

 

  1. vigilante: 
     
    a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

 

Improper spending cannot be condoned, but the speaker running around acting as his own investigator is certainly not in accordance with due process or natural justice, and should be curtailed. 

I thought an audit by an out-of-province auditor was to be undertaken.

 

As to the consent to copy, that is a joke. It was like "consent, or you will be under suspicion of participating in a conspiracy to defraud."

 

and that "improper spending" would not have been uncovered and further, dealt with had Plecas not taken action.  Note that this was not Plecas 'place' to investigate or act on, but he did and in doing so saved taxpayers further losses.  Why was it not Plecas's place?  because the perp(s) had no oversight nor were accountable to anyone least of all the taxpayer.  Go Pelcas go! 



#513 dasmo

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:22 PM

I think it’s exactly his place. “The second major responsibility of the Speaker is to act as the chief executive officer of the Legislative Assembly in its administrative affairs.” So if your employees are steeling from the company you have a solid reason to copy hard drives to preserve any evidence. Asking permission means that the privacy act was not violated. Clever man I say!
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#514 On the Level

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 09:46 PM

I have no problem with someone pointing out / stopping incorrect spending......but......how much have we spent on other public investigations?  Millions. 

 

There are better ways of snuffing out corruption and punishing without spending massive amounts of tax dollars.    



#515 dasmo

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:24 AM

“incorrect spending” is not the right language here. It’s criminal miss-appropriation of public funds and a long standing culture of entitlement to do so. I’m fine with spending my tax dollars on such an investigation to put a stop to this. Better than decades more of my money funding these people’s vacations, expensive watches and wood splitters....

Edited by dasmo, 04 June 2019 - 08:24 AM.


#516 spanky123

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 08:51 AM

“incorrect spending” is not the right language here. It’s criminal miss-appropriation of public funds and a long standing culture of entitlement to do so. I’m fine with spending my tax dollars on such an investigation to put a stop to this. Better than decades more of my money funding these people’s vacations, expensive watches and wood splitters....

 

Not according to the retired judge who investigated the matter. 

 

Nobody is arguing that there should not have been an investigation and nobody is arguing that updating policies is a bad thing. Plecas ran around like a bull in a china shop and accused two people of being crooks and suggesting that they will be going to jail. Neither was found to have committed a crime and one was found to be innocent completely. I suspect that is why the former was allowed to keep his money and retire while the second will be filing suit against the Government as soon as the RCMP investigation is wrapped up.

 

We could have had exactly the same policy outcome without any drama and the subsequent costs to clean up the mess.


Edited by spanky123, 04 June 2019 - 08:51 AM.


#517 dasmo

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:12 AM

Not according to the retired judge who investigated the matter. 

 

Nobody is arguing that there should not have been an investigation and nobody is arguing that updating policies is a bad thing. Plecas ran around like a bull in a china shop and accused two people of being crooks and suggesting that they will be going to jail. Neither was found to have committed a crime and one was found to be innocent completely. I suspect that is why the former was allowed to keep his money and retire while the second will be filing suit against the Government as soon as the RCMP investigation is wrapped up.

 

We could have had exactly the same policy outcome without any drama and the subsequent costs to clean up the mess.

That is not at all what happened. They followed procedure with the involvement of the RCMP. You are simply joining in on the beat down of someone who was brave enough to expose the activates of the establishment. I think you are referring to the independent investigation conclusions which stated that Lenz did not violate his terms of employment. "Clerk Craig James retired immediately as part of a “non-financial settlement” with the legislature after McLachlin’s report found he violated four of five areas of his employment.....Sergeant-at-arms Gary Lenz, who also stood accused of wrongdoing, did not violate the terms of his employment. He remains suspended with pay. The special investigator found that Mr. James did engage in misconduct with respect to four of the five allegations, specifically in relation to making expense claims where improper purchases (were) of a personal nature, by directing the creation of three benefits to his personal advantage outside established protocols, improperly removing legislative assembly property … and by improperly using legislative property,” said NDP government house leader Mike Farnworth." So as far as I know there has been no resolution to the criminal charges. 


Edited by dasmo, 04 June 2019 - 09:13 AM.

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#518 Mike K.

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:20 AM

No, there has not been. The RCMP investigation continues.

Where the concern is, though, is some of the activities taking place or which did take place may ultimately impact the criminal investigations.
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#519 SamCB

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:42 AM

A friend of a friend works in the Legislature, and says the general feeling internally is that Plecas is on a runaway witchhunt and/or power trip, and his sanity is being questioned (quietly) by staff.

I can see it. Didn't McLachlan's report chastize Plecas for starting a rogue undercover operation instead of simply correcting the bad behaviour of his employee?

If I suspected a direct report was stealing from the company, I wouldn't set up a sting operation spanning 12 months while pretending to be complicit.

I'd just stop the employee's behaviour, and then ask the proper investigative /enforcement body to review the historical offences.

I don't know the Leg's org chart too well, but it appears Plecas is taking great liberties with his job description. The question is why.


Edited by SamCB, 04 June 2019 - 10:00 AM.


#520 dasmo

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 09:43 AM

No, there has not been. The RCMP investigation continues.

Where the concern is, though, is some of the activities taking place or which did take place may ultimately impact the criminal investigations.

They were working with the RCMP well before anything took place. This is in part why it happened the way it did to maintain the integrity of the case. This is just what happens to whistle blowers. 

 

I'm really liking this guy and I hope he comes out on top of this and there is some serious reform. 


Edited by dasmo, 04 June 2019 - 09:45 AM.

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