1571 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Well, I don’t know if that would fly. That park is the size of the entire 900-block of Yates. Little Victoria has to think a little smaller, if the primary goal is housing.

[Mike K.]

That being said, if the DRA had its way everything would be a park.

[Nparker]

That being said, if the DRA had its way everything would be a park.

With the exception of the homes in which they already reside.

 

#drahypocrisy

[aastra]

 

 

That park is the size of the entire 900-block of Yates. Little Victoria has to think a little smaller

 

For sure, because otherwise little Victoria would actually be taking advantage of the assets it already has.

 

- "big city" Berczy Park in Toronto: 55 meters by 110 meters

 

- London Drugs block in downtown Victoria: 78 meters by 180 meters

 

- easternmost block of Harris Green boulevard park in downtown Victoria: 42 meters by 175 meters

 

Crikey, the Harris Green boulevard park could be such an urban treasure. But nobody cares one bit about it. It's like it doesn't even exist. Victoria is such a small town, so naturally a large downtown park like that just gets lost in the mix.

[Nparker]

....the Harris Green boulevard park could be such an urban treasure. But nobody cares one bit about it. It's like it doesn't even exist....

To be fair, half of it was certainly well used by homeless campers 2020-2021.

[Mike K.]

I should have known, as soon as I referenced something in Toronto the measuring tape would come out.

[dhboyd305]

Is this walking tour really happening? I can find nothing on this on the harrisgreen.ca web site under News/Events or Community Engagement, nothing on the DVBA Events Calendar, etc.?

A public project information kiosk is being set up this Saturday at the London Drugs block to give nearby residents and shoppers a chance to chat with the developer and ask questions about the upcoming redevelopment.

 

The event is from 11:30 through 2:30, May 7th, with a walking tour scheduled for 12:30 starting at the kiosk.

 

Visitors to the kiosk will have the opportunity to enter into a draw for a $50 gift card for local businesses. Coffee and pastries will be served, too.

 

Project website: https://harrisgreen.ca

[Mike K.]

Yes, it's happening. I wonder if an update on the website has been missed.

 

[Nparker]

I am sharpening my pitchfork  and fueling my torches in preparation.

[Citified.ca]

Harris is currently moving its operations to their new dealership in Langford, which has many people wondering when the City of Victoria will schedule a public hearing for Starlight's 1,500-unit development, the first phase of which will be constructed on the Harris auto property.

 

A rendering of Harris Green Village's first phase, proposed for Yates Street at Cook Street in downtown Victoria's Harris Green neighbourhood. Two towers, rising 20 and 21-storeys, will be comprised of some 500 rental apartments, and approximately 40,000 square feet of retail space a portion of which will be earmarked for a new location of The Market on Yates.

 

A rendering of a public park mid-way between the 900-blocks of Yates and View streets at the centre of Harris Green Village's second phase. The park will include a dog run, an amenity in high demand in downtown Victoria, according to stakeholders.

 

Harris auto's move to Langford brings prospect of 1,500-unit Harris Green rental dev a step closer

https://victoria.cit...ev-step-closer/

[TallGuy]

 

 

For sure, because otherwise little Victoria would actually be taking advantage of the assets it already has.

 

- "big city" Berczy Park in Toronto: 55 meters by 110 meters

 

- London Drugs block in downtown Victoria: 78 meters by 180 meters

 

- easternmost block of Harris Green boulevard park in downtown Victoria: 42 meters by 175 meters

 

Crikey, the Harris Green boulevard park could be such an urban treasure. But nobody cares one bit about it. It's like it doesn't even exist. Victoria is such a small town, so naturally a large downtown park like that just gets lost in the mix.

 

Yeah, but what's the attraction of that park? It's an extra wide grass boulevard with some nice trees next to a busy road. There are no paths or activities to draw people to it, and the location is somewhat unideal, so no one is going to go there.

 

I always think of the North Park Blocks in Portland when I go by the one on Pandora. It has a similar type of location, but it has so much activation - nice wide sidewalks, benches, a playground, a basketball courts, washrooms, lots of lighting, etc. It is a destination whereas the one the one on Pandora is a boulevard that a developer gifted (or something, I don't actually know) where no improvements were ever made.

[aastra]

 

...but what's the attraction of that park? It's an extra wide grass boulevard with some nice trees next to a busy road. There are no paths or activities to draw people to it, and the location is somewhat unideal, so no one is going to go there.

 

That's my point. Nothing good has been done with it (quite the opposite, in fact), even thought it's a unique central boulevard that runs multiple blocks and has oodles of (dare I say it) "European" potential. Victorians have been ignoring it for almost a hundred years, while also complaining about a perceived (!) lack of downtown park space for at least 40 years.

 

I'd say the location is not perfect but still very good: it's surrounded by densely populated neighbourhoods and it marks their transition into downtown proper. In any city that actually cared about such things it would have been turned into a jewel of a space by the mid-1990s at the latest. And there surely would have been a clear vision for future development and redevelopment along it.

 

When a "European" approach would make for an easy and natural fit then nobody wants to bother, whereas when a "European" approach would be controversial, disruptive, and/or expensive then it becomes a top priority. I'd say the grounds of St. Ann's and the south side of the academy property are another glaring example. These things are damning strong indictments of the lack of regard for good park space and recreational space, and certainly not testimonies to the supposedly enlightened attitude that the CoV and many Victorians like to boast of.

 

Seriously, do it right and this thing could and should be the envy of any city in Canada.

 

 

pic from https://archives.vic.../harris-green-3

Edited by aastra, 06 May 2022 - 05:52 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

They spent a fortune beautifying the area in front of the music hall and school, next to Our Place, a decade ago. Complete with raised planters and everything.

Don’t you hang out down there?

[aastra]

I admit I tend to move along as soon as our VV meetings are over.

[Mike K.]

I hate to break it to you, but those aren’t VV meetings.

[aastra]

They're unofficial VV meetings. Let's just say your name is mentioned a lot.

[aastra]

Here's yet another amazing old news item that conclusively demonstrates how "the more Victoria changes, the more it stays the same":

 

 

Daily Colonist
February 22, 1950

Suggestions on Welfare Centre Site Welcomed by Spencer Foundation

The Spencer Foundation is "definitely open" to suggestions as to an alternative site for its proposed $100,000 welfare centre...

For a week, City Council has been bombarded with protests against its decision to let the Foundation build the centre on Pandora Green.

...the green is not city property, and it was beyond the council's power to allow construction on the green.

SEEK ALTERNATE SITE

Citizens, and EVEN AN OAK BAY RESIDENT (aastra says: Wow! EVEN an Oak Bay resident!), have protested council's action on the grounds that THE GREEN SHOULD BE PRESERVED AS ONE OF THE FEW OPEN SPACES IN THE CITY CENTRE.

But apparently the green is Crown property, and owes its existence to a town-planner's mistake.

The first plan of Victoria -- drawn in 1859 by H.O. Tiedemann -- shows the green as simply a triangular strip of land in the centre of Pandora Avenue.

...some sections of the city had earlier been subdivided into lots. Then a 100-acre section of land north of Johnson Street, on what was then the outskirts of town, was subdivided into five-acre "suburban" lots.

When the early planners fitted the suburban 100-acre section into an overall map of the town, they found the sections didn't join evenly.

Narrow triangles of land were left on what is now Arena Way and between Johnson and Pandora.

Legally, the land was part of the streets... and as such was Crown property.

(Section 346 of the Municipal Act declares the Crown owns all streets in any municipality which, like Victoria, does not have a private act.)

For a long time, no improvements were made to the Pandora triangle. It was once used as a dump for old drain pipes... Shortly before the Great War, it was sown to grass and later became known as Harris Green, after Thomas Harris, first mayor of Victoria.

The land is still Crown-owned... and cannot be transferred to the city without approval of the lieutenant-governor-in-council.

City Hall sources indicated there was little likelihood the Provincial Government would consent to building of a welfare centre on Pandora Green.

Mr. Barraclough said last night the Spencer Foundation is "waiting for the critics to bring forward suggestions."

He said the site "should be IN A PROMINENT PLACE (aastra says: political priorities should always be the top priorities) TO REMIND CITIZENS OF THEIR DUTY TO THE COMMUNITY, should be close enough downtown to be used, and SHOULD BE IN THE CENTRE OF THE POPULATION TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THE GREATEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE."

 

So... in the year 2022 would it still make sense to place such services in the centre of the population? You know, to make the services available to the greatest number of people? Maybe around Uptown or in View Royal or someplace like that?

 

(crickets chirping)

Edited by aastra, 06 May 2022 - 05:54 PM.

[aastra]

Another one from the memory hole:

 

 

Daily Colonist
October 26, 1979

Harris Green blueprint before council

"Urban recycling" of 12 blocks bounded by Pandora, Cook, Fort and Blanshard is recommended in a study approved by Victoria city council...

"This concept for a new neighborhood rising on the eastern edge of downtown could have an important impact for the quality of the city's environment in the next quarter century," according to the study.

The new community, Harris Green, of more than 6,000 apartments and condominiums, would provide a "new pedestrian oriented lifestyle option."

Landscaped walkways would allow residents to reach downtown jobs, shopping and other facilities including the "hub of the transit network" on foot.

Objective of Harris Green would be to establish a high-density resident population along with complementary land uses within an attractive and viable environment.

Development would include a mix of public and private sector housing that would take care of a broad mix of income groups in order to avoid ghetto environments. (aastra says: until the future day when politicians decide the effort to include a broad mix has been too successful, thus motivating them to tip the scales back toward the "ghetto" end of the spectrum.)

There should be enough open space to meet leisure needs, while traditional landmarks and heritage buildings should be preserved (aastra says: the old Open Door building and the St. Louis/St. Andrew's school building on Pandora, for example)

Redevelopment of the area, the report said, WOULD REVITALIZE THE DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL AREA (aastra says: until the future day when politicians decide to make open war against the downtown commercial area), and would also relieve redevelopment pressures on neighborhood conservation areas like Fairfield and James Bay. (aastra says: until the future day when politicians embrace the idea of "the missing middle" and thus begin stoking redevelopment pressures on the neighborhoods like never before)

Edited by aastra, 06 May 2022 - 04:38 PM.

[aastra]

One more to put an exclamation mark on the green's longstanding potential:

 

 

Daily Colonist
September 24, 1972

PANDORA'S GREEN

...presumably city council was hopeful of beautification of the Pandora gore, and in March, 1901 the city engineer and city assessor presented a plan for turning the proposed Pandora park area into flower beds. However, that scheme met with considerable opposition from taxpayers and the plan was tabled.

No progress was made until 1909, when concerned property owners banded together and petitioned the civic authorities to "establish a park, particularly where the roadway broadened between Cook and Chambers streets."

...Alderman Bannerman gave notice he would move at the next city council meeting "that the city engineer be instructed to prepare a plan for laying out the eastern portion of Pandora Avenue from Vancouver Street easterly as a recreation park..."

...a plan was submitted which called for "a walk down the centre with shade trees and flower beds for the lower section. The wider part of the gore -- between Chambers and Cook -- would have curving sidewalks throughout the area, shade trees, flower beds, grass and shrubbery."

"At the upper end would be a fountain where there is considerable rock and the water which would find its way down the incline to a pond about 50 feet in diameter situation midway between Cook and Chambers."

Evidently that plan was too costly as a modified one was adopted...

 

More of this article can be found in the Victoria changes thread...

Edited by aastra, 06 May 2022 - 05:24 PM.

[Mike K.]

The project will include an accessible play park for children, with playground equipment able to accommodate wheelchairs and mobility devices. Pretty neat