4570 replies to this topic

[spanky123]

As inflation surges, wages are stagnating.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/canada

[Victoria Watcher]

No reimbursements will be offered to businesses under the permanent program.

“The benefit of paid sick leave far exceeds the cost or modest cost that comes with paid sick leave,” Bains said.


https://www.timescol...ch-year-4794479


Benefit to who and cost to who?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 November 2021 - 08:01 PM.

[vortoozo]

Exactly my point. The Government is the sole arbitrar of what is reasonable. The reality is that if your job sucks it would take iess than 15 minutes of effort to get another one for 99.9% of workers these days.

 

As an aside, was out with a buddy this evening for dinner and his company has found a solution. All of their new hires have been contractors in other parts of Canada. Fair pay but no benefits. Everyone wins.

 

If your buddy is so against 5 days of paid sick day to the point where he won't hire locally, then it sounds like he's not a good employer to work for, or frankly, do business with. 

Throwing toddler-like temper tantrums isn't exactly a sign of good management.

[vortoozo]

Benefit to who and cost to who?

 

Lots of studies out there showing that business in jurisdictions that have switched to paid sick leave have had better productivity, lower turnover rates, higher growth rates than similar businesses in jurisdictions without, etc.

[spanky123]

^ Obviously my buddy hasn’t contracted 10 people since the announcement today. It has been ongoing as it all adds up. 1% for extra holidays. 2% for eht, 2% for sick days, 1% in payroll taxes, wcb jumps, etc, etc and before long extra overhead is 10%+.

[Victoria Watcher]

Once you hire contractors you are only one step away from hiring overseas help.

Which is where I get some gig labour for my boss.

Keep pushing sick days and the like we will keep looking far away for labour.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 November 2021 - 08:31 PM.

[spanky123]

^ Toronto is a 3 hour time difference, most of central and South America is 1-5 hours. Even if only 10% of the population speaks decent English that is still more than the population of Canada.

[Mike K.]

My friend with a software company has now switched over to contractors working just about everywhere in the world. He says the great thing is they’re happy to get the money, and he’s structured it so someone answers emails 24 hours a day. Can’t beat that level of customer service.

He says his local workers became a liability due to missed deadlines and threats of leaving when things got heavy.

[spanky123]

^ That was my point with the link I posted about immigrant workers and wage stagnation. From what I am hearing in tech as an example, wages are coming down (mind you they shot up last year with covid).

[Victoria Watcher]

Provincial workers to return to office Dec. 1; vaccine mandate now in effect

Unvaccinated provincial employees who don't qualify for exemption will be placed on unpaid leave

https://www.timescol...-effect-4796513

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 November 2021 - 09:18 AM.

[spanky123]

^ If the require workers to return to the office it will be interesting to hear some of the stories. I know of one local business who asked employees to come back to the office in September only to find out that 4 of 15 had moved out of town and they had no idea!

[AllseeingEye]

My friend with a software company has now switched over to contractors working just about everywhere in the world. He says the great thing is they’re happy to get the money, and he’s structured it so someone answers emails 24 hours a day. Can’t beat that level of customer service.

He says his local workers became a liability due to missed deadlines and threats of leaving when things got heavy.

 

There is a certain fairly significant segment of "local" workers with a nasty streak of entitlement that doesn't help either; my wife is the senior HR/Ops manager for the Victoria office of a very successful Vancouver-based IT service delivery org which has been in business since the 80's.

 

Middle level managers there this week - run of the mill ops folks, not director level or above, no budget or P&L responsibility, with minimal staff HR oversight - were whining near and far due to the fact their 2021 bonuses - ranging from $6-10k for basically showing up to do their jobs - "weren't good enough". One of them apparently had a mini tantrum and threatened to leave then and there if the bonus wasn't increased, to which my wife's boss said "...well there is a Subway right down the street looking for staff so feel free..."

 

In contrast my own employer discovered they'd quite unintentionally and inadvertently overlooked corporate goal rewards-bonus payouts for 2020-1 for staff who qualified, meaning on this week's cheque I got not one but two rather significant quarterly bonus payments dating back to fall 2020, on top of my regular pay - for which I and all the other staff are incredibly grateful given the timing in relation to Christmas. Some folks never fail to realize just how good they have it it seems.

[spanky123]

There is a lot of good talent in Victoria and I don't want to diminish that, but the reality is that there are also a lot of people who are here for the "lifestyle". At the top of each cycle when labour is tight and wages in some sectors are a little higher than historical averages, there is always a segment of people who start to think that they are a bit more talented and exceptional than what they really are. Usually this corrects during a downturn, but covid has forced companies to adopt remote work and many are finding that talent exists elsewhere and that they have more options then they thought they did.

[dasmo]

RFKJr's book is selling like hot cakes. it's #2 on amazon this week. 

https://www.amazon.c...y/dp/1510766804

[dasmo]

It's actually Amazons overall #1 bestseller right now.

https://www.amazon.c...stsellers/books

[Victoria Watcher]

Cost of sick leave will be felt by all

 

The government’s announcement that as of Jan. 1, all employees in B.C. will be entitled to five days of paid sick leave.

 

This benefit will cost my medium-sized business in excess of $100,000 annually. Unfortunately, experience has shown that most employees who have sick leave benefits will take the days off, even if not sick.

 

As businesses will not be able to absorb these extra costs, consumers will have to pay more for all goods and services.

 

I am not suggesting that paid sick leave is wrong, just that once again the cost of living will increase to families already struggling financially.

 

Tim Hackett
Brentwood Bay

 

https://www.timescol...pansion-4804992

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 November 2021 - 01:41 PM.

[lanforod]

Is there a factual source for this: "Unfortunately, experience has shown that most employees who have sick leave benefits will take the days off, even if not sick."

 

In my own experience, this isn't really true, coming from various jobs that have effectively unlimited paid sick days. There are some abusers of the system, yes, but most don't.

 

5 days per employee for a medium sized business. Say, 50 employees, and all 50 took all 5 days. Thats basically a FTE cost, not 100k+ unless that's what you're paying those 50 employees on average. That also assumes someone being away can't simply be absorbed (people DO get sick regardless so the actual time away might not drop much, its just the business now has to pay for it).

 

TLDR: If your business is doing so poorly that this would put you underwater, you have bigger problems.

Edited by lanforod, 27 November 2021 - 02:02 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

Is there a factual source for this: "Unfortunately, experience has shown that most employees who have sick leave benefits will take the days off, even if not sick."

 

 

I think it might depend a lot on the business or the sector.  I would suspect that jobs with lower pay and higher turn-over would have more people taking their sick days. 

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 27 November 2021 - 02:07 PM.

[Matt R.]

Is there a factual source for this: "Unfortunately, experience has shown that most employees who have sick leave benefits will take the days off, even if not sick."[/size]
 
In my own experience, this isn't really true, coming from various jobs that have effectively unlimited paid sick days. There are some abusers of the system, yes, but most don't.
 
5 days per employee for a medium sized business. Say, 50 employees, and all 50 took all 5 days. Thats basically a FTE cost, not 100k+ unless that's what you're paying those 50 employees on average. That also assumes someone being away can't simply be absorbed (people DO get sick regardless so the actual time away might not drop much, its just the business now has to pay for it).
 
TLDR: If your business is doing so poorly that this would put you underwater, you have bigger problems.

We fit into that 50 employee range, and while we are doing relatively well financially I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that a hit of $50k is something a mid sized business can simply absorb and not feel. If you are netting 200k a year and next year nothing changes except you now net $150k, is it fair to say your business is doing poorly? That’s a huge loss of income. It doesn’t need to put you “under water” to be a massive hit.

[vortoozo]

We fit into that 50 employee range, and while we are doing relatively well financially I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that a hit of $50k is something a mid sized business can simply absorb and not feel. If you are netting 200k a year and next year nothing changes except you now net $150k, is it fair to say your business is doing poorly? That’s a huge loss of income. It doesn’t need to put you “under water” to be a massive hit.

 

Do you feel that the legislation will cost you $50K though?

My current employer is quite flexible with when I'm sick, and although there is no official policy, they'll give me the time off if I need it. I think I've taken one day in the past four years. Now, I am on salary, which I imagine many of your employees are not, but the point is that not all employees will need or take 5 days each year.

The other consideration is how a business might handle those days. For salaried workers, if they are not replaced for the day then there is no direct cost other than lost productivity. For hourly employees, yes there would be the cost of the employee that is off sick, but depending on whether you call someone else in or run an employee short for the day it might not cost more than your budgeted payroll. If you do need to call someone else in, particularly if overtime, that's where the additional cost would be. However if the person that ends up covering is already salaried (perhaps a supervisor or business owner), then no additional cost. So it really ends up depending on the business structure and the operational procedures that end up being developed.