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COVID ECONOMICS


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#2241 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 07:00 AM

That’s a fair statement.

I think though that once this is universal and understood, each year more and more hourly employees will be sure to take full advantage. In fact I expect SJW organizations to promote people taking mental health days etc.

Also, how does the year work? Will employees all want to take December 29, 30, and 31 off to avoid losing them?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 November 2021 - 07:01 AM.


#2242 vortoozo

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 07:07 AM

Will employees all want to take December 29, 30, and 31 off to avoid losing them?

 

Does that happen now in companies with established paid sick day policies? I imagine that taking a sick day when you are not truly sick would be subject to disciplinary proceedings in most organizations, and doing so on the last few days of the year would pretty much guarantee a chat in the boss' office.



#2243 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 07:12 AM

Does that happen now in companies with established paid sick day policies? I imagine that taking a sick day when you are not truly sick would be subject to disciplinary proceedings in most organizations, and doing so on the last few days of the year would pretty much guarantee a chat in the boss' office.

 

I don't know.  I think organizations that have paid sick leave employ more mature workers.   I think the abuse will happen at the lower paid, lower-skilled jobs.  It might not even affect FoH restaurant workers so much, as they will miss out on tips.  But your grocery clerk or cashier might be more than willing to use all 5 days.

 

And orgs like the Retail Council will be sure to remind them that "illness" is not just colds and fevers, but any time a worker feels less than 100% mentally.


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 November 2021 - 07:15 AM.


#2244 A Girl is No one

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 08:03 AM

Is there a factual source for this: "Unfortunately, experience has shown that most employees who have sick leave benefits will take the days off, even if not sick."

In my own experience, this isn't really true, coming from various jobs that have effectively unlimited paid sick days. There are some abusers of the system, yes, but most don't.

5 days per employee for a medium sized business. Say, 50 employees, and all 50 took all 5 days. Thats basically a FTE cost, not 100k+ unless that's what you're paying those 50 employees on average. That also assumes someone being away can't simply be absorbed (people DO get sick regardless so the actual time away might not drop much, its just the business now has to pay for it).

TLDR: If your business is doing so poorly that this would put you underwater, you have bigger problems.

Yes $100k sounds high. I’m guessing pay for the sick day (scheduled employee) and pay for an extra shift to replace the sick employee and this might be overtime, so more expensive?
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#2245 vortoozo

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 08:11 AM

And orgs like the Retail Council will be sure to remind them that "illness" is not just colds and fevers, but any time a worker feels less than 100% mentally.

 

Doesn't the Retail Council represent business owners? Why would they lobby employees to not report for work if they are fit for work?



#2246 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 08:15 AM

Sorry wrong group.

https://workersolidarity.ca/about/

Former Retail Action Network.

They wanted 10 days. And:


The Network also emphasizes the need to remove any requirement to provide a sick-note as evidence for their employer. “Not only do sick note requirements place an unnecessary burden on our healthcare system, it also ridiculously suggests that employers are qualified to interpret what’s valid or necessary regarding a person’s private emergencies or health matters,“ said Charron.



Bunch of Marxists.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 November 2021 - 08:19 AM.


#2247 Matt R.

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 11:30 AM

Do you feel that the legislation will cost you $50K though?
My current employer is quite flexible with when I'm sick, and although there is no official policy, they'll give me the time off if I need it. I think I've taken one day in the past four years. Now, I am on salary, which I imagine many of your employees are not, but the point is that not all employees will need or take 5 days each year.
The other consideration is how a business might handle those days. For salaried workers, if they are not replaced for the day then there is no direct cost other than lost productivity. For hourly employees, yes there would be the cost of the employee that is off sick, but depending on whether you call someone else in or run an employee short for the day it might not cost more than your budgeted payroll. If you do need to call someone else in, particularly if overtime, that's where the additional cost would be. However if the person that ends up covering is already salaried (perhaps a supervisor or business owner), then no additional cost. So it really ends up depending on the business structure and the operational procedures that end up being developed.


No I don’t, and I am in full support of it, just pointing out the other side for those who dismiss this as a nothing burger. I’ve spent basically a lifetime already working in an industry where it’s been ok to work sick, even encouraged and seen as a sign of toughness or loyalty or whatever. Enough is enough. Covid has hurt my industry in many ways, and opened our collective eyes in many others.

I also have zero qualms about raising prices to make my margins. Used to be we all felt like we were in a race to the bottom, keep prices low, customers happy, make money on volume at any cost… those days are going away.
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#2248 A Girl is No one

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 12:30 PM

We’ll see how elastic the demand is. There might have been a reason for the focus on keeping prices low.

#2249 Matt R.

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 12:34 PM

We have the market cornered.



#2250 lanforod

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 01:26 PM

You really do not want people who are sick to be coming to work. That's a snowball effect. Some of the cost of this is recovered by simply having more productive employees who aren't at work, sick, being less effective and spreading something to others who then do the same thing. This policy change could be a major gamechanger for how colds, flus and other illnesses get around if people actually stay home when sick.
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#2251 Barrrister

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 07:06 PM

Depends on the business because the customers show up with colds, flu and Covid. The costs will be passed on. 



#2252 LJ

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Posted 28 November 2021 - 07:14 PM



The Network also emphasizes the need to remove any requirement to provide a sick-note as evidence for their employer. “Not only do sick note requirements place an unnecessary burden on our healthcare system, it also ridiculously suggests that employers are qualified to interpret what’s valid or necessary regarding a person’s private emergencies or health matters,“ said Charron.



 

I know one guy that got fired for writing his own sick notes.


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#2253 Ismo07

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Posted 29 November 2021 - 09:16 AM

Is it just a flat 5 days?  So if you are part-time?  Have 3 jobs you work 2 days here, 2 there and another 1 day a week.  Would you get 15 days?  Should it be worked similar to holiday pay where the employer holds a % (of hours/pay - not from the pay cheque)  and when you are sick you draw off that?



#2254 Spy Black

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Posted 29 November 2021 - 09:23 AM

It's kind of a complex pro-rated affair, somewhat measured off each separate employer. 

So "no" you don't get 15 days (you may not even get 5) ... but it is (as expected) an involved calculation:

 

https://www.leg.bc.c...reading/gov13-1


Edited by Spy Black, 29 November 2021 - 09:26 AM.

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#2255 spanky123

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Posted 29 November 2021 - 12:20 PM

You really do not want people who are sick to be coming to work. That's a snowball effect. Some of the cost of this is recovered by simply having more productive employees who aren't at work, sick, being less effective and spreading something to others who then do the same thing. This policy change could be a major gamechanger for how colds, flus and other illnesses get around if people actually stay home when sick.

 

So under the new rules they just show up on the 6th day! 



#2256 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 11:29 AM

I don't disagree much with the report.  I disagree that CoV's amazing "strategy" is responsible. 

 

 

But this seems a bit off:

 

 

 

The city credited its Victoria 3.0 Economic Action Plan, Business Hub and Build Back Victoria program, the latter of which brought about permanent implementation of a patio bylaw to extend public spaces, for increased entrepreneur optimism.

 

 

https://www.vicnews....ry-city-report/

 

 

 

Where is the entrepreneur increased optimism?  The one guy quoted?  The new business licenses, which I think can be a bit misleading as a more accurate measure would show renewals.  If we have 751 new ones and 1050 not renewed, that's a real negative.

 

 

 

REPORT:   https://www.victoria...evelopment.html


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 08 December 2021 - 11:36 AM.


#2257 Mike K.

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Posted 08 December 2021 - 12:07 PM

From a climate action point of view I still don’t understand why Victoria thinks it should continue to play a central role for employment. It would be far more climate conscious to have people working where they live, and more equitable to share the economic benefits of employment across the region. Victoria wants half of all jobs, but is home to only 1/5 of the population.

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#2258 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 02:16 PM

Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland tabled a fiscal and economic update today that commits billions of dollars in new spending to help Canada ride out a relentless health crisis.

 

While the government made a number of big-ticket promises during the last election campaign, this relatively short 96-page document is focused on the fight against COVID-19 — something Freeland described as "our most important national project."

 

Major Liberal campaign commitments — such as new housing supports, health transfer hikes and climate change initiatives — have been put off until the spring budget as the government adopts an "omicron-centric" approach to governing in the short term, a senior government official told reporters at a briefing.

 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/n...icron-1.6285558


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 14 December 2021 - 02:16 PM.


#2259 dasmo

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 02:31 PM

THE REAL ANTHONY FAUCI

by Robert F. Kennedy Jr 

is also on the New York Times best seller list.  :banana:

CodRd2o.jpeg



#2260 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 14 December 2021 - 02:33 PM

Andrew Cuomo ordered to return $5 million in earnings from COVID book

 

https://www.nydailyn...t4my-story.html



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