4570 replies to this topic

[Greg]

Nobody is being forced to do anything. They'll choose to take the available vaccine (or not). Which is pretty much what people have been doing on a regular basis with vaccines and other medicines their entire lives, typically with no awareness of who the actual manufacturer even is.

 

The fact that everyone is all wrapped up in which vaccine they are getting, is actually unusual in itself. Which flu vaccine did you get last year? Who manufactured the shingles vaccine you got? Who are the main manufacturers of the MMR vaccine? (I mean, you can easily look this up, but did you already know? And has it ever previously been a frequent topic for dinner conversations and zoom calls?)

[Victoria Watcher]

they’ve been given a Hobson’s choice. Take the moderna or we have no information as to when or if you can get a Pfizer.

^ the covid vaccines are all experimental. the flu and shingles ones are not.

it’s reasonable that people would feel better only taking one experimental vaccine this year not two.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 June 2021 - 09:25 PM.

[TFord]

https://www.youtube....h?v=wckMULt01EE

 

what do you all make of this? I think this behaviour is un-acceptable from an elected politician.

 

eh - thanks the guys in charge for making the rain? What on earth?

 

TFord

[m3m]

https://www.youtube....h?v=wckMULt01EE

what do you all make of this? I think this behaviour is un-acceptable from an elected politician.

eh - thanks the guys in charge for making the rain? What on earth?

TFord

You may not be aware, but Manitoba has been in drought conditions for the better part of the year so far. It’s causing chaos in the agriculture industry. They finally got a huge downpour of rain. That explains the rain comment.

The question is about a long-debunked conspiracy theory about Ivermectin being an effective covid treatment. It’s what some of the hydrochloroquine tin foil hat people moved on to after that conspiracy theory was debunked too. His answer may have been a bit clumsy but it didn’t warrant a serious answer.

[vortoozo]

It wasn’t asked to. Our government said doses were secured from multiple sources.

38 million to 1 million. That’s the legacy.

 

Our "legacy" is not based on how many doses were administered by February 14th. What a narrow view.

[vortoozo]

they’ve been given a Hobson’s choice. Take the moderna or we have no information as to when or if you can get a Pfizer.

^ the covid vaccines are all experimental. the flu and shingles ones are not.

it’s reasonable that people would feel better only taking one experimental vaccine this year not two.

 

Vaccine delays and shortages are not limited to Canada.

This narrative that our government has done worse than our peers is getting old.

Certainly, it wasn't perfect. It's a pandemic, with ever changing information and decisions needing to be made on the fly. In hindsight, things could have been done better, there's no question.

 

Yet, here we are, having accomplished one of the lowest death rates and having one of the strongest vaccination rates while having faced significantly fewer restrictions than most of our peers. Seems like a pretty darn good balance to me.

 

Yes, the US vaccinated faster, and had fewer restrictions, but their death rate was 3x ours.

 

Meanwhile, the European countries had way more restrictions than us that lasted for much longer than ours. Our vaccination rates are ahead of theirs, and we had a lower death rates.

 

The only G7 country with a lower death rate (Japan) also has low vaccination rates. I have to admit, I'm not familiar with the restrictions that were in place there.

 

There's no magic formula, and none of the G7 countries did particularly well. But we certainly didn't underperform overall. No one can look at the US or any other G7 country and say: they handled things much better than we did.

[Victoria Watcher]

anyone that follows my posts knows that I am mostly satisfied with the progress so far.

[Mike K.]

Our "legacy" is not based on how many doses were administered by February 14th. What a narrow view.

The dead would have probably died anyway, right? The US vaccinated Canada’s entire population by the time we vaccinated our first million (in fact it was still days after Feb 14th that we reached an actual million, as in February 19th). 2 million was March 10th, by which point France had vaccinated 4.5 million, Germany 5.8 and the UK 23M. The US was at 62.5M. By March 15th the US had double vaccinated 38 million people, or Canada’s entire population.

We had a “secured” supply. It never materialized until months after it was to have materialized. You are asking Canadians to forget that ever happened, and I don’t agree with that.

Now because this is an election year, the Liberal Party will depend on people like yourself to brush aside the failed initial vaccine rollout.

[spanky123]

^ Don't forget that as a result of the failed roll-out and lack of science based restrictions, Canada maintained the world's most generous money printing scheme and went from one of the least indebted countries in the industrialized world to one of the most (only behind Japan, Greece and Italy). That will impact far more lives than covid.

[Mike K.]

I trust that our restrictions saved lives, and compared to the US we fared much better as a society if viewed purely through the lens of saved lives directly from COVID exposure. The long term impacts remain to be seen.

I am optimistic that the next government, whatever it may be, will recognize that a large part of paying down that debt will be creating opportunities for our resources to reach international markets. We are getting pennies on the dollar for our energy resources by being tethered to the United States for exports (as in they are pretty much our only customer, and we charge them what they are willing to pay).

[rjag]

Covid-19 vaccine tracker (ft.com)

Attached Images

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[Mike K.]

Don't look at that data, consumer. You must celebrate the vaccine roll-out.

[vortoozo]

The dead would have probably died anyway, right? The US vaccinated Canada’s entire population by the time we vaccinated our first million (in fact it was still days after Feb 14th that we reached an actual million, as in February 19th). 2 million was March 10th, by which point France had vaccinated 4.5 million, Germany 5.8 and the UK 23M. The US was at 62.5M. By March 15th the US had double vaccinated 38 million people, or Canada’s entire population.

We had a “secured” supply. It never materialized until months after it was to have materialized. You are asking Canadians to forget that ever happened, and I don’t agree with that.

Now because this is an election year, the Liberal Party will depend on people like yourself to brush aside the failed initial vaccine rollout.

 

These countries have higher populations than us. The focus on absolute number of vaccines should be adjusted based on population, hence the doses per 100 people metric.

 

Doses per 100 people, as of yesterday:

 

UK 109.9

US 95.3

Canada 86.3

Germany 80.1

Italy 77.1

France 71.6

Japan 26.0

 

While we are behind the UK, and quickly closing in on the US, we have done better than the rest of the G7 in vaccine procurement and delivery.

And we were able to do it in a balanced way that saved lives and didn't have to rely on the severe months-long restrictions in Europe.

 

There's no question that vaccines took longer to reach most countries outside of Israel, UK & US. But Canada wasn't an outlier here. Our vaccine numbers were similar to the rest of the world on Feb 14th (eg, not much at all), and I don't recall the supply delays that you are claiming happened outside a couple of isolated incidences (eg the Pfizer factory retooling, and a few times that they were otherwise delayed a handful of days). Vaccines have for the most part arrived faster than the initial schedule, and there were several instances of additional supply that allowed vaccine schedules to be brought forward.

[Ismo07]

Don't look at that data, consumer. You must celebrate the vaccine roll-out.

 

You don't have to celebrate it but to keep harping that we started a couple months later is tiring..  We are at a pace now that is higher than expected... 70% fully vaccinated before September is in reach...  Good or bad that's where we are at.  To think some other politicians would have gotten this 100% right is laughable.  Sometimes the devil you know is better right?  I just don't see how complaining about it makes sense at this point, unless you are politically motivated here...  I don't think the folks here who are happy with how the vaccinations are progressing are pro-current leadership necessarily, just pro-opening up, and this just happens to be where we are..  I get that you want the People's Party, but let's start another thread on Trudeau bashing... 

[Mike K.]

So your population-based metric only applies when you’re positively speaking of the vaccine roll-out? Now the argument has fallen apart.

On February 14th, for every 38 Americans vaccinated, Canada had vaccinated fewer than 1.

[vortoozo]

So your population-based metric only applies when you’re positively speaking of the vaccine roll-out? Now the argument has fallen apart.

On February 14th, for every 38 Americans vaccinated, Canada had vaccinated fewer than 1.

 

The covid crisis didn't end on February 14th. This is an arbitrary date that you've selected for some reason. And this was was addressed in my note above. So, let me repeat it. There's no question that vaccines took longer to reach most countries outside of Israel, UK & US. But Canada wasn't an outlier here. Our vaccine numbers were similar to the rest of the world on Feb 14th (eg, not much at all).

[Ismo07]

So your population-based metric only applies when you’re positively speaking of the vaccine roll-out? Now the argument has fallen apart.

On February 14th, for every 38 Americans vaccinated, Canada had vaccinated fewer than 1.

 

Move forward now..  Where are they now?  They produce the stuff of course they will use it first....

[spanky123]

So the Fed's plan to pay for all of the covid goodies is to have the rich pay their fair share.

 

Well despite providing tens of millions of dollars to hire CRA auditors to track down the hundreds of billions of dollars the rich were hiding in taxes, the net result was squat!

 

The author surmises that the rich are just too smart to get caught as opposed to the equally viable answer being that they are not cheating and there is no "free money" to be had.

 

CRA audits of ultra-wealthy Canadians yield zero prosecutions or convictions - The Globe and Mail

 

CRA audits of ultra-wealthy Canadians yield zero prosecutions or convictions

Edited by spanky123, 22 June 2021 - 11:25 AM.

[Greg]

When Mike's kid graduates from college with honors, Mike is going to still be bashing him about the C- he got in calculus his first semester...

[Mike K.]

Well I'm honoured you'd say that

 

Fellas, I get the point you're all making, I really do. But the press is not doing Canadians any favours - during an election year - by omitting how the initial roll-out was fraught with problems and to this day is causing issues with vaccine mixing and the potential for AZ problems and vaccine verification. It is not the media's job, I don't think, to focus only on the good but not address the bad (like our position being 45th internationally for full vaccinations; that should be the concern for Canadians, not how fast we're catching up to #44).