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215 graves at Kamloops residential school | Discussion, news, and what we know so far


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#321 LJ

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Posted 08 June 2021 - 07:20 PM

I received this in an e-mail today;

 

Some other facts about the Residential Schools in Canada

1. While the federal residential school system began around 1883, the origins of the residential school system can be traced to as early as the 1830s — long before Confederation in 1867 — when the Anglican Church established a residential school in Brantford, Ont.

2. The Canadian government was financially responsible for Indian residential schools. Indian residential schools operated in all Canadian provinces and territories except Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland. Indian residential schools operated in Canada between the 1870s and the 1990s.

3. Residential schools were federally run, under the Department of Indian Affairs. Attendance was mandatory for children in the many communities that didn't have day schools. Agents were employed by the government to ensure all native children attended school.Mar. 21, 2016

4. On June 11, 2008, on behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, then-Prime Minister Stephen Harper stood in the House of Commons to deliver an apology to students of Indian residential schools, their families, and communities.Nov. 24, 2017

5. Infectious diseases like tuberculosis and influenza often ran rampant among the students, leading to many deaths. In addition to attending class, students at many schools also had to perform chores to maintain the school and even sometimes do farm work to feed the school.2 days ago

6. One of today's headlines asks> Will families whose children died at residential school receive any compensation?  

The survivors have already been compensated (Link to the agreements: Microsoft Word - IND-DET2-ENG.doc (residentialschoolsettlement.ca)

DRAFT – January 3, 2006 (residentialschoolsettlement.ca)

How much money did residential school survivors get?
Adjudicators awarded $2.14 billion in compensation to 23,431 claimants while another 4,415 claimants received compensation directly from the federal government. Overall, the government paid out $3.23 billion in compensation and other costs.
 

Life's a journey......so roll down the window and enjoy the breeze.

#322 spanky123

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Posted 08 June 2021 - 08:21 PM

^ It should be noted that FN children who were adopted/cared for by non-FN families are in court suing for $2B.


Edited by spanky123, 08 June 2021 - 08:21 PM.


#323 FawltyVic

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Posted 08 June 2021 - 08:29 PM

Annett and others have been claiming "Mass graves" for years.

 

In the beginning I was a researcher for a number of groups/organizations. There was nothing more I wanted to see then someone brought up on charges on a cold case crime. But the way they were going about it, the things they claimed, even to refuse help from the RCMP, it made me wonder what intentions these people at the time had.

 

an article of the day about Annett can be found here:

https://thetyee.ca/V.../TruthAndAbuse/

 

Now we're back at square one. There are so many questions. Who was it that used the ground penetrating radar? Was the press release of "mass grave" and 215 children found a mistake or a deliberate political move? Is Annett attached still to this search for mass graves? If we heard about this is late May, how fast can a group produce t-shirts and badges as soon as late last week? The fundraising that is going on for this through citizens and businesses, how is the money being used and how will the money be used these unmarked graves are never touched?

 

There's too many questions and not enough evidence (as of yet) for me to get behind this (again).

 

And since we're quoting facts here, it was mentioned the last residential school was closed in 1996. This is true but it was kept open until 1996 at the request of a First Nation.

 

I have no doubt there were some bad to horrible acts committed in these residential schools. I feel sad that the people who were everyday people or a shining light during this period will never be acknowledged because it goes against the narrative. I had read an old old article around 2008 about a nun who was badly burned and hospitalized (I wonder if she lived) after saving children from a fire at one of the residential schools. Stuff like this isn't meant to downplay the bad that was done but it shouldn't be forgotten either.


Edited by FawltyVic, 08 June 2021 - 08:35 PM.

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#324 Benezet

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Posted 08 June 2021 - 10:00 PM

…Was the press release of "mass grave" and 215 children found a mistake or a deliberate political move?…


If you’re referring to the first press release from the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc Chief, the answer is neither. It does not make any mention of a mass grave.

https://tkemlups.ca/...DIA-RELEASE.pdf

Edited by Benezet, 09 June 2021 - 12:26 AM.

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#325 VIResident

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 05:12 AM

^ It should be noted that FN children who were adopted/cared for by non-FN families are in court suing for $2B.

-

 

FFS you make it sound like the 'adoption', the 'cared' for is what First Nations are suing for.  Nice try.

-

 

STOLEN from their mothers and fathers, that is what they are suing for. 

 

The theft. 

 

AND to be clear this theft is NOT like stealing candy.  

 

Imagine being a parent and your baby, young child is stolen from you and you never see them again?

-

Now, imagine, imagine horrific abuse of every imaginable sort that child, in the new 

'cared for' 'adoptive' 'home' endures for years in the 'caring' home.

 

Now imagine, years later, the state of the First Nation parents and the now adult child(ren)?   

 

I assure you depression, mental health, family dysfunction, community dysfunction, abuse drugs, alcohol are the

tip of the iceberg.

 

Please, please, please EDUCATE YOURSELF.  


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#326 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 05:32 AM

here is an article about a woman that says her mother placed her for adoption. while her mother was working in a residential school. in 1967.

https://www.timescol...hool-1.24328455

although she admits she has never spoken to her mother about it.

how have her opinions been formed about the school? just from heresay it sounds like.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 09 June 2021 - 05:36 AM.


#327 anon scientist

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 05:42 AM

Annett and others have been claiming "Mass graves" for years.

In the beginning I was a researcher for a number of groups/organizations. There was nothing more I wanted to see then someone brought up on charges on a cold case crime. But the way they were going about it, the things they claimed, even to refuse help from the RCMP, it made me wonder what intentions these people at the time had.

an article of the day about Annett can be found here:
https://thetyee.ca/V.../TruthAndAbuse/

Now we're back at square one. There are so many questions. Who was it that used the ground penetrating radar? Was the press release of "mass grave" and 215 children found a mistake or a deliberate political move? Is Annett attached still to this search for mass graves? If we heard about this is late May, how fast can a group produce t-shirts and badges as soon as late last week? The fundraising that is going on for this through citizens and businesses, how is the money being used and how will the money be used these unmarked graves are never touched?

There's too many questions and not enough evidence (as of yet) for me to get behind this (again).

And since we're quoting facts here, it was mentioned the last residential school was closed in 1996. This is true but it was kept open until 1996 at the request of a First Nation.

I have no doubt there were some bad to horrible acts committed in these residential schools. I feel sad that the people who were everyday people or a shining light during this period will never be acknowledged because it goes against the narrative. I had read an old old article around 2008 about a nun who was badly burned and hospitalized (I wonder if she lived) after saving children from a fire at one of the residential schools. Stuff like this isn't meant to downplay the bad that was done but it shouldn't be forgotten either.



#328 anon scientist

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 05:42 AM

Annett and others have been claiming "Mass graves" for years.

In the beginning I was a researcher for a number of groups/organizations. There was nothing more I wanted to see then someone brought up on charges on a cold case crime. But the way they were going about it, the things they claimed, even to refuse help from the RCMP, it made me wonder what intentions these people at the time had.

an article of the day about Annett can be found here:
https://thetyee.ca/V.../TruthAndAbuse/

Now we're back at square one. There are so many questions. Who was it that used the ground penetrating radar? Was the press release of "mass grave" and 215 children found a mistake or a deliberate political move? Is Annett attached still to this search for mass graves? If we heard about this is late May, how fast can a group produce t-shirts and badges as soon as late last week? The fundraising that is going on for this through citizens and businesses, how is the money being used and how will the money be used these unmarked graves are never touched?

There's too many questions and not enough evidence (as of yet) for me to get behind this (again).

And since we're quoting facts here, it was mentioned the last residential school was closed in 1996. This is true but it was kept open until 1996 at the request of a First Nation.

I have no doubt there were some bad to horrible acts committed in these residential schools. I feel sad that the people who were everyday people or a shining light during this period will never be acknowledged because it goes against the narrative. I had read an old old article around 2008 about a nun who was badly burned and hospitalized (I wonder if she lived) after saving children from a fire at one of the residential schools. Stuff like this isn't meant to downplay the bad that was done but it shouldn't be forgotten either.


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#329 Spy Black

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 06:04 AM

 

There's too many questions and not enough evidence (as of yet) for me to get behind this (again).

It's likely the parties who are directly affected by this tragedy aren't concerned with any personal decisions not to "get behind" their current undertakings.

 

That some questions being posited relate to (for example) seeking out the name (and thus the credentials) of the gentleman who operated the ground penetrating radar ... might miss the point entirely.


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#330 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 07:33 AM

It's likely the parties who are directly affected by this tragedy aren't concerned with any personal decisions not to "get behind" their current undertakings.

 

They should be. I am not saying it is the case but if any aspect of this story turns out to be exaggerated or worse fabricated then it would be disastrous for FN communities across Canada.

 

I think everyone knows that and why information is now being carefully curated.


Edited by spanky123, 09 June 2021 - 07:40 AM.


#331 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 07:38 AM

FFS you make it sound like the 'adoption', the 'cared' for is what First Nations are suing for.  Nice try.

-

Please, please, please EDUCATE YOURSELF.  

 

 

I have an extended family member who was 'cared for', that enough education for you? Father raped mother, mother incapable of care of the child, no other relative interested in helping out. What do you do, leave the kid lying in the street? I am sure that some children were likely removed from their homes without full consideration being given, but the majority came from situations where nobody was willing/able to care for the child within the community. Not the kid's fault.

 

I would support a ban against the adoption or care of FN children by anyone who wasn't FN but even the FN community knows that isn't the answer.



#332 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:09 AM

They should be. I am not saying it is the case but if any aspect of this story turns out to be exaggerated or worse fabricated then it would be disastrous for FN communities across Canada.

I think everyone knows that and why information is now being carefully curated.

We’re already witnessing the break down of a 25-year treaty process in our own backyard. The Pacheedaht have something to say about their newly secured autonomy, I’m sure.

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#333 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:13 AM

Annett and others have been claiming "Mass graves" for years.

 

More specifically Annett has been claiming mass graves in Kamloops for years. 

 

The initial media reference to "mass graves", the band's statement that their "research dates back years" and the secrecy surrounding who did the work and the results don't bode well.

 

https://www.kamloops...ogus-1.23727342



#334 spanky123

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:19 AM

We’re already witnessing the break down of a 25-year treaty process in our own backyard. The Pacheedaht have something to say about their newly secured autonomy, I’m sure.

 

What I am getting at is that the debunking of any of the claims made in Kamloops will result in a severe backlash against FN interests across the country as people will feel defrauded and cheated. It will also mean the end of any potential funding for other investigations.


Edited by spanky123, 09 June 2021 - 08:19 AM.


#335 VIResident

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:25 AM

I have an extended family member who was 'cared for', that enough education for you? Father raped mother, mother incapable of care of the child, no other relative interested in helping out. What do you do, leave the kid lying in the street? I am sure that some children were likely removed from their homes without full consideration being given, but the majority came from situations where nobody was willing/able to care for the child within the community. Not the kid's fault.

 

I would support a ban against the adoption or care of FN children by anyone who wasn't FN but even the FN community knows that isn't the answer.

 

I am sorry for the pain you experienced and that of your family members. 

The child needed care clearly and I place no blame on the mother, you. 

 

"some children were likely removed from their homes without full consideration being given" and "the majority came from situations where nobody was willing/able" etc. 

 

There was a concerted effort by churches, by governments to 'remove' First Nation children from their homes, place them in residential schools or 'remove' them and place them with white families. 

 

This is well documented, the numbers are in the thousands. 

 

Not a case of "the majority came from situations where nobody was willing/able to care for them" 

 

https://indigenousfo.../sixties_scoop/

 

By the 1970s, roughly one third of all children in care were Aboriginal.6 Approximately 70 percent of the children apprehended were placed into non-Aboriginal homes,7 many of them homes in which their heritage was denied. In some cases, the foster or adoptive parents told their children that they were French or Italian instead.8 Government policy at the time did not allow birth records to be opened unless both the child and parent consented. This meant that many children suspected their heritage but were unable to have it confirmed.


Edited by VIResident, 09 June 2021 - 08:27 AM.

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#336 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:47 AM

What I am getting at is that the debunking of any of the claims made in Kamloops will result in a severe backlash against FN interests across the country as people will feel defrauded and cheated. It will also mean the end of any potential funding for other investigations.


I would posit that such backlash is already present when FNs do something that the activist front doesn’t like, though. The FNs can’t seem to win in this country no matter what they do, or don’t do. There’s always a group waiting to either exploit their interests, obstruct their interests, or decry their interests as being unfairly supported or unfairly benefiting from something.

So no matter the outcome in Kamloops, there will be backlash, is what I’m saying.
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#337 VIResident

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 08:53 AM

I would posit that such backlash is already present when FNs do something that the activist front doesn’t like, though. The FNs can’t seem to win in this country no matter what they do, or don’t do. There’s always a group waiting to either exploit their interests, obstruct their interests, or decry their interests as being unfairly supported or unfairly benefiting from something.

So no matter the outcome in Kamloops, there will be backlash, is what I’m saying.

 

Your comment Mike, a clear sign of allyship.  Thank you. 


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#338 Mike K.

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 09:01 AM

There was a concerted effort by churches, by governments to 'remove' First Nation children from their homes, place them in residential schools or 'remove' them and place them with white families.

Churches were the social services of that era. The social services we see today, like Our Place, etc, are new constructs, and we see how much they still rely on churches when the latter were forced to suspend their social activities due to COVID-19.

“Religion” plays into this because it was the only social construct that could handle such facilities at the time and well into the mid-20th century, created and put into existence by politicians/government. In other words, it was not the “church” that created the residential school system. It fulfilled the operational outcome of a political agenda, because it was the only construct in society equipped to do it.
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#339 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 09:19 AM

I would posit that such backlash is already present when FNs do something that the activist front doesn’t like, though. The FNs can’t seem to win in this country no matter what they do, or don’t do. There’s always a group waiting to either exploit their interests, obstruct their interests, or decry their interests as being unfairly supported or unfairly benefiting from something.

 

it's almost as if there are serious downsides to running "two systems" within the same country.   :whyme:



#340 VIResident

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Posted 09 June 2021 - 09:25 AM

I guess there are certain things where we (e.g. Canadian government/society) will not accept FN autonomy. Where it doesn't fit or directly clashes with Canadian values, for example. Logging of the few remaining old growth forest is one.

 

IMO there is no room for 'cherry picking'. 

BC supports inherent rights, support treaty rights or not.                                 

 

The Province has engaged in treaty negotiations, one would presume in good faith. 

Municipalities are a creature of the province.   Why then do we see several municipal politicians hoping to 'get arrested'

for actively participating in a blockade that First Nations have requested be removed? 

 

Reconciliation my ass.

 

All of them should resign stat.  

See Times Colonist https://www.timescol...sted-1.24328498

Saanich Coun. Nathalie Chambers

Metchosin Coun. Andy MacKinnon

Victoria Coun. Ben Isit

Comox Valley Regional District’s Daniel Arbour and Arzeena Hamir, Comox Coun. Nicole Minions and Cowichan Valley Regional District director Alison Nicholson.

 

"....On June 4, 2021, the three Nations signed the Hišuk ma c̕awak Declaration to take back their power over their ḥahahuułi. For more than 150 years they have watched as others decided what was best for their lands, water, and people. This declaration brings this practice to an immediate end."

https://huuayaht.org...L-signedpdf.pdf

 

BC Treaty Commission Annual Report 2020
 
“Pacheedaht will have ownership of approximately 1,897 hectares of land transferred to the nation, including former reserves, and a capital transfer of approximately $19.72 million. The treaty will recognize and protect Pacheedaht’s inherent title and rights, establish how the First Nation’s laws interact with federal and provincial laws, recognize harvesting and resource rights throughout its territory, and establish the land, cash, and governance provisions of the treaty.”
 
AND
 
2019 Agreement in Principle
"exclusive authority to determine, collect and administer any fees, rents or other charges, except taxes, relating to the harvesting of Forest Resources on...Pacheedaht Lands"
 
AND
 
Pacheedaht IMA (Cedar Conservation Strategy - 400 years)
 

Edited by VIResident, 09 June 2021 - 09:28 AM.


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