1000 replies to this topic

[Ismo07]

98 year run graveyard contains bodies.

film at 11.

 

But should contain headstones....

[Victoria Watcher]

Divide the number of people who have ever inhabited the earth by the number of marked graves worldwide.

Shocking!

let’s have an inquiry. “Government funded” of course.

news flash - all the buried people are long since dead. not very significant. especially since nobody seems to know who they are - including their direct relatives and family.

[Rob Randall]

Let's face the reality you are sidestepping:

 

Most of the kids in those graves died because the government deliberately cheaped out on tuberculosis care.

 

The reason they're buried at the school was because the government insisted the families pay for the transport of their dead children off the property.

[Ismo07]

Divide the number of people who have ever inhabited the earth by the number of marked graves worldwide.

Shocking!

let’s have an inquiry. “Government funded” of course.

news flash - all the buried people are long since dead. not very significant. especially since nobody seems to know who they are - including their direct relatives and family.

 

But over the last 60 years shouldn't we know who died where and shouldn't families know where and when their children died?  This isn't about bodies from 1,000 years ago...

Edited by Ismo07, 24 June 2021 - 09:12 AM.

[Victoria Watcher]

that’s why it’s shocking that few of the families know. isn’t it?

[Victoria Watcher]

Let's face the reality you are sidestepping:

Most of the kids in those graves died because the government deliberately cheaped out on tuberculosis care.

.

that’s not at all clear to me. no records.

the new “discovery” includes adults. how it that explained? teachers and staff? or could it just be this is a normal community graveyard?

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 24 June 2021 - 09:20 AM.

[Rob Randall]

Some staff members like cooks and janitors were indigenous.

[Ismo07]

that’s why it’s shocking that few of the families know. isn’t it?

 

I'm not sure what you are getting at.  Children were taken from their families to change their names, educate them and make them Catholics, you think once the programming was done, that all those kids simply returned?  Likely they never went home and to some extent were never in touch with their families again.  We simply do not what happened however the families should have been notified and delivered home, not at the expense of the families.  Mistakes were made here and I'm not sure it's as simple (certainly not very compassionate) to say "lot's have people have died over the years so this is not news" or "other families lost their kids during that time".

 

We can do a little better and have more respect than that.  The record keeping wasn't very good and it should have been....  

 

that’s not at all clear to me. no records.

the new “discovery” includes adults. how it that explained? teachers and staff? or could it just be this is a normal community graveyard?

 

It sounds like it's a small number so yeah likely teachers I suppose.

Edited by Ismo07, 24 June 2021 - 01:14 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

but it seems like their families just gave up on them too. they also never kept records.

[spanky123]

Let's face the reality you are sidestepping:

 

Most of the kids in those graves died because the government deliberately cheaped out on tuberculosis care.

 

The reason they're buried at the school was because the government insisted the families pay for the transport of their dead children off the property.

 

If you read the article from April when this was first reported, 80% of the children found are babies. Would have had nothing to do with residential schools.

 

As mentioned earlier, the unfortunate reality of life in the 1800s was that a higher % of kids of any ethnicity died before they were 5.

[Ismo07]

but it seems like their families just gave up on them too. they also never kept records.

 

Well you got me there.  Solid reasoning....

[Ismo07]

If you read the article from April when this was first reported, 80% of the children found are babies. Would have had nothing to do with residential schools.

 

As mentioned earlier, the unfortunate reality of life in the 1800s was that a higher % of kids of any ethnicity died before they were 5.

 

I think the two stories are different.  The one you are citing is an actual old cemetery near Saskatoon where archaeologist students are learning.  The other is 2 hour east of Regina at the residential school..  You are bringing in an article that has nothing to do with residential schools.  I do not believe that babies are being found at the residential school...

Edited by Ismo07, 24 June 2021 - 10:21 AM.

[spanky123]

I think the two stories are different.  The one you are citing is an actual old cemetery near Saskatoon where archaeologist students are learning.  The other is 2 hour east of Regina at the residential school..  You are bringing in an article that has nothing to do with residential schools.  I do not believe that babies are being found at the residential school...

 

You are right. Same group of students doing the work which I mistook as the same location.

[Victoria Watcher]

"give us more money"

 

 

 

 

 

Indigenous advocates in Canada are calling for more cultural and mental-health supports for residential school survivors as communities discover unmarked graves at former sites.

Front-line organizations working with Indigenous people say the need for in-person help has intensified in the past month since the Tk'emlups te Secwepemc First Nation in Kamloops, B.C., announced ground-penetrating radar had found what are believed to be the remains of 215 children buried on the grounds of a one-time residential school in Kamloops.

______________________________

Jason Mercredi, executive director of Prairie Harm Reduction in Saskatoon, said the disclosures are triggering "troublesome memories" for survivors. He said there has been an increase in visits to the safe consumption site from individuals looking for mental-health support.

"We can't really keep up, and it's tough because some of these folks have been successfully coping for a number of years," said Mercredi, who is Denesuline and Metis.

Pandemic restrictions have limited the number of places offering face-to-face support, so workers have had to refer people to an outside support line, he said.

_______________________________

Wilson also believes there is a need for more culturally appropriate forms of support such as beading or sewing circles.

"We need more people to understand how our hands can help us more so than traditional western talk-through therapy."

The National Association of Friendship Centres, which represents more than 100 such gathering places across the country, would like to see intergenerational support as well.

"Our youth are in this sea of information about crimes, violence, murders against their ancestors. They need help walking through that and figuring out what does that mean," said Kelly Benning, a Metis woman and the association's vice-president.

 

 

https://www.ctvnews....ivors-1.5485167

[Victoria Watcher]

i think it's very problematic to call any of these "crime scenes".  

 

because contemporaneously either the crimes were not reported, or overlooked, or intentionally ignored.   but i think there is very little possibility all the burials went on unknown.  in the same place.  over decades in most cases.

 

so if for whatever reason it was not investigated as a crime back when they occurred what basis do we use today to categorize them as crimes?

 

now presumably at many times in the past not every death was accounted for like it is today.  your grandmother or grandson could die and no official had to sign off on the death.  and burial arrangements were much less formal also.

 

i'm struggling to find another example of past "normal" practices that can today be ruled "crimes" and investigated as such.

 

i do have an example though.  i am old enough to recall watching (done to others in plain sight in the classroom) - and receiving, myself - corporal punishment in school.  activities that today would have teachers charged and convicted of assault.

 

but it was normal practice back then.  now putting aside whether there is a lower statute of limitations on assault than say sexual assault or murder, it seems to me you can't act today against historic crimes that might have been the norm back then.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 25 June 2021 - 05:15 AM.

[Spy Black]

The death of a child due to neglect or abuse will always be a crime, whether it happened 100 years ago, or yesterday.

 

Whether anybody will actually get punished for those crimes remains to be seen, and seems unlikely ... but continuing to reference these child deaths as "crimes" remains a fantastic idea, lest they begin to be referred to by assorted Priests, casual racists, and other miscellaneous "defenders" of residential school policies and practices as merely an "unfortunate situation, best forgotten about".

[spanky123]

^ In addition to corporal punishment, I saw kids brained by chalkboard erasers for not paying attention in class. Those things leave a mark.

 

The problem in the case here is that nobody knows yet for sure there are bodies in the sites let alone how they died. Maybe I am ignorant but I find it hard to believe that nuns would line kids up at night, execute them and then dump them in unmarked pits. What I find far more likely is that out of a class of 500 kids, 1 or 2 died each year due to disease or injury and over the course of 100+ years we wound up with grave markets being removed, rotted or overgrown.

 

What is happening is that people are tuning this stuff out now. The hyperbole and opportunism is no longer worth the effort. I continue to wait for the reports to show me that children were murdered on mass and then I will react.

[Victoria Watcher]

i only see one jurisdiction deciding to lower flags for 751 days.  

 

it is being tuned out now.

[Victoria Watcher]

The death of a child due to neglect or abuse will always be a crime, whether it happened 100 years ago, or yesterday.

 

Whether anybody will actually get punished for those crimes remains to be seen, and seems unlikely ... but continuing to reference these child deaths as "crimes" remains a fantastic idea, lest they begin to be referred to by assorted Priests, casual racists, and other miscellaneous "defenders" of residential school policies and practices as merely an "unfortunate situation, best forgotten about".

 

there is no evidence to support the crimes though.  that evidence does not exist.  although it may have in the past.   it's gone now.

 

i doubt the churches listed any dead kids as "killed by nun".

[Spy Black]

i doubt the churches listed any dead kids as "killed by nun".

My personal belief would be that outright murder is just hyperbole.

But by extension, if it was a Nun that was responsible for the medical care of a child, and that same Nun neglected to get appropriate care for that child ... and then that child became extremely ill and died from the illness that the Nun neglected to treat ... then considering that the schools were "residential", and considering that the children were 100% in the care of the Nuns ... then "killed by nun" would be an appropriate statement (as opposed to "murdered by nun", although the child's actual parents might argue that they're one and the same).

 

Before declaring that no evidence exists though, it may be prudent to await the forensic examination of the documents just released yesterday by the Sisters of St. Anne. (likely to be followed by many other sects being obliged to release previously private records).

One has to remember that these people thought they were doing an excellent job of caring for the children, so (at the time) would have had no hesitation in accurately recording whatever might have transpired ... documents which we might read now and realize were actually recording outright brutalization of these children.