438 replies to this topic

[LJ]

How about Goldstream Park?

[VicHockeyFan]

Item in today's TC says the Sooke potholes campground will not open this year.  It's run or owned by TLC.  Does that mean it does not even make money in summers?

[Bingo]

Item in today's TC says the Sooke potholes campground will not open this year.  It's run or owned by TLC.  Does that mean it does not even make money in summers?

 

It will be open during the day but closed for overnight camping.

 

http://blog.conserva...ng-this-summer/

[pherthyl]

Surprising. You'd think it would make money during the summer months. Maybe they should just lease the rights to run the campground if they can't do it themselves.

[tedward]

Clearly an example of the incompetence of the TLC. How could they not make such a fantastic campground profitable?

[Bingo]

Clearly an example of the incompetence of the TLC. How could they not make such a fantastic campground profitable?

 

It's not just the potholes campground, all TLC properties are in jeopardy.

[VicHockeyFan]

It's not just the potholes campground, all TLC properties are in jeopardy.

 

I think what he means is that surely the courts, or whoever needs to give approval, if they do, would see the need for them to hair a few peeps, to rake in some money during summer.  ie. if it is profitable during summer, they might as well run in to help their overall bottom line.  Now maybe there is other matters at play, like they can't get insurance etc.

[tedward]

It's not just the potholes campground, all TLC properties are in jeopardy.

 

I well understand that the entire organization is a joke but why does that mean the campground should not open? Surely a competent organization would be able to sustain operations of the campground based on user fees? Could they not lease the campground to an independent operator?

The longer this farce goes on the worse off we will be. I was a member of this organization and I think it should be dismantled and it's properties absorbed into the Regional or Provincial Parks system or transferred to an organization like the Nature Conservancy of Canada.

[VicHockeyFan]

The longer this farce goes on the worse off we will be. I was a member of this organization and I think it should be dismantled and it's properties absorbed into the Regional or Provincial Parks system or transferred to an organization like the Nature Conservancy of Canada.

 

I would not go that far.  It's all private land, why would they want to hand it over to government?

[tedward]

I would not go that far.  It's all private land, why would they want to hand it over to government?

 

LOL, I love how you turn everything around.  I want to turn the land over to us, the people of British Columbia by transferring ownership to "The Crown". Parkland belongs to all of us and the only involvement from the government is that they are elected by us to oversee the maintenance of these lands for the benefit of all British Columbians now and in the future. This was the mandate of TLC but that is threatened.

As private land it can be sold or seized and turned into whatever the private owner wants (within the laws and regulations of the local community). The mortgages assumed by the TLC board place all their properties at risk. That we could lose these properties to private development is the whole reason we are having this discussion.

[VicHockeyFan]

LOL, I love how you turn everything around.  I want to turn the land over to us, the people of British Columbia by transferring ownership to "The Crown". 

 

YOU want to somehow decide how private property is used?  Why don't we let the private property owner decide for themselves how it's handled?

[VicHockeyFan]

Parkland belongs to all of us and the only involvement from the government is that they are elected by us to oversee the maintenance of these lands for the benefit of all British Columbians now and in the future. 

 

This particular parkland has never belonged to us.  It's private property.

[Mike K.]

This is not the first time the likes of the TLC have found themselves in this situation. It's an established reality that land trusts and such collect money from the public to buy and protect once private land, but when things go awry that land is sold back to a private bidder.

That's just the way it goes. So unless the government wants to buy the TLC's land for full market value (and tax payers may object to it doing so) the TLC may very well have to return it's holdings back to the private market to cover it's debts.

[G-Man]

^ It would depend on the creditors I would suspect and the titles on the land that they received. Many of the properties were given to the TLC and well have a note on the title as to how they can be used and disposed of into the future. It may go to a bank if they must dispose of assets but the buyer will not be able to alter the title that may indicate that the use must be "for the public". Who knows though this is all just conjecture.

 

I think that if there was a proper audit of the TLC it would be clear that this is not an issue in general with land trusts but rather very poor management on the part of the Board which has been in discussion publicly for years. 

[tedward]

YOU want to somehow decide how private property is used?  Why don't we let the private property owner decide for themselves how it's handled?

 

Are you just taking the piss now?

The TLC is a not-for-profit society that solicited donations of cash and real estate on the explicit promise to hold the lands in trust for the people of this province.

If they start to sell the properties to pay debts or worse, have them seized by the banks, they will have failed in their duty and possibly broken the law. This is not simply private property that can be bought and sold at will.

 

 

This particular parkland has never belonged to us.  It's private property.

 

Now you are just being intentionally obtuse. It was clear I was referring to lands within the current parks system in British Columbia to which I feel these properties should be added.

[Bingo]

I don't think some of the commenters here have grasped the predicament that TLC is in. 

 

More information on that will be out in the next few weeks.

 

Here are some updates.

http://blog.conserva...latest-updates/

[G-Man]

I am quite certain that some of their properties will be sold and while they were supposed to have been held in trust they are not owned by the public in anyway that i am aware of. It would be up to the province to want to pay for the money owed to the Banks and others.

[Mike K.]

Exactly. Land trusts are "private" non-profits despite being referred to as "charitable" organizations. There is nothing public about them other than allowing the public access to their holdings should the land trust so choose. If the land trust can't pay its debts the banks, not Joe public, decide what to do with its assets.

 

From the TLC's About Us page, notice that they state their "goal" is to protect their property holdings in perpetuity, but whether or not they meet that goal is another matter.

Usually known as TLC, The Land Conservancy is a non-profit, charitable Land Trust working throughout British Columbia.  TLC protects important habitat for plants, animals and natural communities as well as properties with historical, cultural, scientific, scenic or compatible recreational value.

 

Founded in 1997, TLC is modeled after the National Trust of Britain.  It is a democratic organization, membership-based, and governed by an elected Board of Directors (volunteer).  TLC relies on a strong membership and volunteer base to help maintain its operations.

 

The Land Conservancy achieves its conservation objectives by working in a non-confrontational, businesslike manner.  We work with many partners, all levels of government, other agencies, businesses, community groups and individuals to ensure the broadest support for our activities.  We are here for the long term.  When we take properties under our care, our goal is to protect them in perpetuity.

 

[tedward]

I don't think some of the commenters here have grasped the predicament that TLC is in. 

 

As I understand it, they are well and truly f#@%*d after years of delusional leadership and unsustainable practices. Is that not the case?

 

Regarding the camp ground I don't understand how this prevents them from leasing or sub-contracting or whatever someone to open the campground for this summer? Even if they have to sell it off or turn it over to the bank isn't it better to have a self-sustaining operation open than just leaving it closed and not bringing in any revenue?

Edited by tedward, 16 April 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[Mike K.]

Perhaps the operation was losing money? Prior to the TLC taking over the land, anyone remember that massive resort that remained after the developer went belly up? It was such a cool building to explore as a teenager. The TLC razed it several years ago and installed a horse pen, no?