2247 replies to this topic

[Jackerbie]

And adding to my post above regarding the Westshore’s population relative to that of Victoria’s, had View Royal not been plucked from the “Westshore” and added to the “core” by the CRD the Westshore population would have already eclipsed that of the City of Victoria by over 2,000 people as per the 2016 census.

Why did View Royal suddenly merge with the core instead of remaining on the Westshore?

 

Do we know when/if View Royal was counted as part of the Westshore in CRD documents? The 2014 population projection has them as part of the core

[RFS]

Who cares though, really? For all intents and purposes it’s all one city. And it’s a distinction that is getting less and less meaningful as we grow. It’s an invisible line after all

[Mike K.]

Do we know when/if View Royal was counted as part of the Westshore in CRD documents? The 2014 population projection has them as part of the core

 

About ten years ago it was moved out of Westshore and added to the core. Why? Who knows.

 

 

Who cares though, really? For all intents and purposes it’s all one city. And it’s a distinction that is getting less and less meaningful as we grow. It’s an invisible line after all

 

For all intents and purposes it's 13 cities and as they grow winners and losers are emerging on various fronts, such as housing access/affordability, infrastructure upgrades, municipal taxes and political agendas. And competition for employment is going to become a key issue in the 2020's with the Westshore having enough of being told it can't/won't/shouldn't see government offices because of X, Y and Z.

[Victoria Watcher]

government has a mandate to NOT locate offices outside of the host municipality/capital.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 28 January 2019 - 10:53 AM.

[RFS]

About ten years ago it was moved out of Westshore and add to the core. Why? Who knows.



For all intents and purposes it's 13 cities and as they grow winners and losers are emerging on various fronts, such as housing access/affordability, infrastructure upgrades, municipal taxes, and competition for employment is going to be a key issue in the 2020's with the Westshore having enough of being told it can't/won't/shouldn't see government offices.

Right but for the average person they will just buy where it’s affordable and work where the jobs are and no matter where that is, they will continue to say they live and work in Victoria.

We don’t have 13 actual cities. We have 13 ridiculous municipal governments presiding over 1 city and the stuff you are talking about is all the more reason to amalgamate.

[Mike K.]

government has a mandate to NOT locate offices outside of the host municipality/capital.

 

Provincial government is only one layer of government.

 

Right but for the average person they will just buy where it’s affordable and work where the jobs are and no matter where that is, they will continue to say they live and work in Victoria.

We don’t have 13 actual cities. We have 13 ridiculous municipal governments presiding over 1 city and the stuff you are talking about is all the more reason to amalgamate.

 

Context is everything. Nobody who lives in Langford tells a Saanich resident they live in Victoria. But someone from Colwood who is visiting France knows better than to spend an hour explaining what Colwood is and where it's located.

 

The sense I get from people in this region is the more things continue as they are the more resistance there is to amalgamation.

[Nparker]

government has a mandate to NOT locate offices outside of the host municipality/capital.

The BC public service is also actively promoting telecommuting/work-from home and other "non-traditional" working methods. I don't see any push to create offices outside the core.

[RFS]

 

Context is everything. Nobody who lives in Langford tells a Saanich resident they live in Victoria. But someone from Colwood who is visiting France knows better than to spend an hour explaining what Colwood is and where it's located.

 

 

 

Yeah but at that point, they are basically describing their neighbourhood.  Because if someone said where is Saanich and where is Colwood, they would say "it's in Victoria".

And to my point about it being less and less meaningful, when people are moving here from up island, or out of province, it is all Victoria to them.

 

 

The sense I get from people in this region is the more things continue as they are the more resistance there is to amalgamation.

 

You might be right about this, and the blame lies entirely on Lisa Helps in my opinion. 

[Victoria Watcher]

a good friend of mine works for the feds. this person now works 2 set days per week from home. it’s the future for sure.

[aastra]

 

...had View Royal not been plucked from the “Westshore” and added to the “core” by the CRD the Westshore population would have already eclipsed that of the City of Victoria by over 2,000 people as per the 2016 census.

 

2016 census:

Victoria city:
85,792 (19.47 square km)

West comms:
Langford: 35,342 (39.94 square km)
Colwood: 16,859 (17.67 square km)
Metchosin: 4,708 (71.13 square km)
Highlands: 2,225 (38.05 square km)
Sooke: 13,001 (56.62 square km)
View Royal: 10,408 (14.36 square km)
--
TOTAL: 82,543 (237.77 square km)

 

Methinks the only way the already very large "west comms" would have surpassed Victoria city in population by now is if you stretch their physical size from silly large (more than twice the size of Saanich) to stupid large, thus enabling the inclusion of a few thousand more people in the boondocks of the CRD (as if most of Sooke, Metchosin, and the Highlands weren't boondock-ish enough for you).

 

It's funny, Victorians like to look at the west comms and marvel at the growth numbers, but when you compare those numbers against historic growth in Victoria or Saanich the reaction should probably be dismay. Why the heck does such a large area in the west comms still have such a low population? Why has late 20th-century and early 21st-century suburban growth in the west comms been so slow as compared to post-1945 suburban growth in Saanich? Why is the west comms still so far behind Saanich, despite being so much larger? etc.

 

Here's a more interesting comparison. The more urban areas of the west comms as compared to the city proper & city neighbourhoods in Oak bay and Esquimalt:

 

West comms:
Langford: 35,342 (39.94 square km)
Colwood: 16,859 (17.67 square km)
View Royal: 10,408 (14.36 square km)

--
TOTAL: 62,609 (71.97 square km)

 

City:

Victoria: 85,792 (19.47 square km)

Oak Bay: 18,094 (10.53 square km)

Esquimalt: 17,655 (7.08 square km)

--
TOTAL: 121,541 (37.08 square km)

 

The city neighbourhoods have half the land area but twice the population. Even with their growth constraints and even with no-growth Oak Bay included they're still way ahead of Langford/Colwood/View Royal.

[aastra]

 

this person now works 2 set days per week from home. it’s the future for sure.

 

Back in the early 1990s a co-worker was participating in a "telecommuting" pilot project. Even back then he was working more than two days per week from home.

[aastra]

 

The city neighbourhoods have half the land area but twice the population. Even with their growth constraints and even with no-growth Oak Bay included they're still way ahead of Langford/Colwood/View Royal.

 

Seriously, how can this fact not blow a huge hole through the narrative?

 

 

Victoria’s biggest fear is a government office in Langford as that will signal the beginning of a shift towards population-based employment.

 

Remind me, what incentives has Victoria developed to drive large office construction projects in downtown Victoria or otherwise address this big fear? Did I miss the memo re: relaxation of height restrictions for new office towers?

[Nparker]

Seriously, how can this fact not blow a huge hole through the narrative?...

No one likes having their narrative questioned. Entire nations have had their governments shut down over less.

[aastra]

Next you'll be questioning the "war is peace" narrative that all governments have been pushing since... well, since the first day there was ever government of any kind.

[Mike K.]

Add Juan de Fuca Electoral Area and First Nations reserves to that total, and you get 77,460 without View Royal, or 87,868 with View Royal.

 

Not bad, considering a smartypants back in 2010 thought that the Westshore might reach 80,000 within 20 years.

 

But here's the thing, aastra, the municipal boundaries of Westshore municipalities might be large, but 70% of the population lives within an urban footprint no bigger than the CoV.

[Mike K.]

Unlike Victoria, Langford/Colwood have some pretty large lakes, lagoons, forests and mountainsides to contend with.

 

[aastra]

 

Not bad, considering a smartypants back in 2010 thought that the Westshore might reach 80,000 within 20 years.

 

That one astute forumer predicted 80,000 in the west comms by 2030, but noted that he might be erring on the low side by about 10,000.

 

I bet he'd waffle a bit re: the precise definition of the west comms. But even so, he seems pretty sharp.

 

 

Unlike Victoria, Langford/Colwood have some pretty large lakes, lagoons, forests and mountainsides to contend with.

 

Are you someone123 at SSP now? Making excuses for Halifax because it has parks and industrial properties and commercial areas, and other cities don't?

Edited by aastra, 28 January 2019 - 01:36 PM.

[aastra]

I wouldn't argue that Langford seems to be developing at an above-average density for a newer suburban area, which (despite the criticism aimed its way) is actually pretty good considering the absence of highrise buildings. Once highrise buildings start popping up the density numbers will be looking better. Hey, maybe Langford will eventually be touted as the model "green" community for its density, transportation networks, local shopping options, etc.

[Nparker]

...maybe Langford will eventually be touted as the model "green" community for its density, transportation networks, local shopping options, etc.

And maybe I'll wake up 25 years old again tomorrow morning.

[aastra]

Let us know what happens.