Jump to content

      














Photo

Amalgamation of Victoria municipalities


  • Please log in to reply
2181 replies to this topic

#2101 tedward

tedward
  • Member
  • 1,974 posts
  • LocationJames Bay

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:44 AM

Surrey is over 500k

 

Yup, which places it in the "similar" category for me and also makes my point.

If 500,000 people are served by a single municipal government, why on earth are 350,000 in a contained geographical area allowing ourselves to be divided and bamboozled by 13+ governments?


  • jonny, Awaiting Juno and VIResident like this

Lake Side Buoy - LEGO Nut - History Nerd - James Bay resident


#2102 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 56,715 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:49 AM

Surrey is nearing 600,000, believe it or not.


  • tedward likes this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#2103 Jackerbie

Jackerbie
  • Member
  • 3,208 posts
  • LocationRichmond, BC

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:50 AM

^ Let's make sure the anti-amalgamation people never find out about PEI or Newfoundland & Labrador, lest we have a Province of Victoria proposal on our hands  ;)



#2104 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher
  • Member
  • 14,223 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:57 AM

sooke is imperialist for sure. I think it’s in latin on their coat of arms.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 19 June 2019 - 09:57 AM.


#2105 Torrontes

Torrontes
  • Member
  • 285 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:16 AM

Forced municipal amalgamations require "mega-chutzpah" (per Borins, J. in East York v. AG of Ontario), which invariably requires a conservative provincial government. As that pre-condition is never likely to be the case in B.C., fugetaboutit.



#2106 Jackerbie

Jackerbie
  • Member
  • 3,208 posts
  • LocationRichmond, BC

Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:14 PM

^ Kelowna was amalgamated under the first NDP government in 1973. I believe it was forced.



#2107 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 12,902 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:29 PM

^ Kelowna was amalgamated under the first NDP government in 1973. I believe it was forced.

 

I did not know that.

 

Capture.JPG

 

Bonus Air Canada ad.


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#2108 RFS

RFS
  • Member
  • 4,803 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:33 PM

Are they telling people to sleep with their cousins? Or am I the only one getting that from the ad

Edited by RFS, 19 June 2019 - 02:33 PM.

  • tedward likes this

#2109 Rob Randall

Rob Randall
  • Member
  • 12,902 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:41 PM

I don't think it's supposed to be overtly sexual. More like "Wow, that beanpole has grown into a fine young specimen in my absence!" Think grandma and grandpa ogling Molly Ringwald in "Sixteen Candles"


"[Randall's] aesthetic poll was more accurate than his political acumen"

-Tom Hawthorne, Toronto Globe and Mail


#2110 Mike K.

Mike K.
  • Administrator
  • 56,715 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:58 PM

Hmmm. That’s kinda whack.
  • Matt R. and VIResident like this

Know it all.
Citified.ca is Victoria's most comprehensive research resource for new-build homes and commercial spaces.


#2111 DustMagnet

DustMagnet
  • Member
  • 1,508 posts
  • LocationView Royal

Posted 19 June 2019 - 03:22 PM

I don't think it's supposed to be overtly sexual. More like "Wow, that beanpole has grown into a fine young specimen in my absence!" Think grandma and grandpa ogling Molly Ringwald in "Sixteen Candles"

 

As with everything, when viewed through today's lens it is Highly Questionable.  Probably because someone drew a p***** on the lens.

 

* The extra * is for this note explaining that I am unsure if medical terms are not family-friendly.

Oh, and if you rewatch Sixteen Candles forget how they eyeball her and instead consider how they treat poor Long Duk Dong.


  • Rob Randall and Matt R. like this

#2112 Matt R.

Matt R.
  • Member
  • 2,883 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:02 PM

Lake. Big lake.

Matt.

#2113 Benezet

Benezet
  • Member
  • 1,081 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:00 PM

^ Kelowna was amalgamated under the first NDP government in 1973. I believe it was forced.


To be clear, it was an amalgamation of several unincorporated Electoral Areas of the Central Okanagan Region District together into a much-expanded City of Kelowna, not an amalgamation of existing municipalities.

https://www.regional...ral Okangan.pdf
  • Mike K. likes this

#2114 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 1,648 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:11 PM

Forced municipal amalgamations require "mega-chutzpah" (per Borins, J. in East York v. AG of Ontario), which invariably requires a conservative provincial government. As that pre-condition is never likely to be the case in B.C., fugetaboutit.

 

I agree.  Those pinko communist taxpayer leaches at the Fraser Institute are at it again!

 

 

As noted, studies on Ontario’s larger cities found no cost savings to amalgamation, and indeed, our research on smaller municipalities came to similar conclusions.

 
Specifically, 15 years after amalgamation, we found the exercise did not result in cost-savings or lower property taxes. Rather, we found significant increases in property taxes, compensation for municipal employees, and long-term debt in both amalgamated and unamalgamated communities, suggesting there was no tangible financial benefit from amalgamation.

 

https://www.fraserin...tion-experiment



#2115 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 1,648 posts

Posted 19 June 2019 - 11:13 PM

^ It doesn't matter, this thread will continue for pages and pages because it is based on strong opinions.


Edited by On the Level, 19 June 2019 - 11:14 PM.


#2116 VIResident

VIResident
  • Member
  • 585 posts
  • LocationVancouver Island

Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:23 AM

1) South Vancouver (32,267) amalgamated with Vancouver (117,217) between 1921 &1931 censuses

2) Point Grey (13,736) amalgamated with Vancouver (117,217) between 1921 & 1931 censuses

3) Cranberry Lake (1,350) merged with Powell River ((9,969) between 1951 & 1956 censuses

4) Westview (3,507) merged with Powell River (9,969) between 1951 & 1956 censuses

5) Guisachan (636) amalgamated with Kelowna (19,412) between 1956 & 1961censuses

6) Glenmore (1,287)- portion annexed to Kelowna (19,412) between 1956 & 1961 censuses

7) Natal (829) amalgamated to form Sparwood (1,928) between 1961 & 1966 censuses

8) Alberni (4,783) and Port Alberni (13,755) amalgamated between 1966 & 1971 censuses

9) Chapman Camp (664) annexed to Kimberley (5,901) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

10) Marysville (1,126) amalgamated with Kimberley (5,901) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

11) Mission City (3,412) merged with Mission (5,351) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

12) Aennofield (989) merged with Fort St. John (6,749) between 1966 & 1971 censuses.

13) Salmon Arm (1,854) amalgamated with Salmon Arm DM (4,801) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

14) Tadanac (367) amalgamated with Trail (11,600) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

15) North Kamloops (11,319) merged with Kamloops (26,168) between 1966 & 1971 censuses

16) Dufferin (762) merged with Kamloops (26,168) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

17) Valleyview (3,787) merged with Kamloops (26,168) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

18) Fraser Mills (157) amalgamated with Coquitlam (53,073) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

19) Kinniard (2,846) amalgamated with Castlegar (3,440) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

20) South Fort George (1,282) merged with Prince George (33,101) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

21) Sumas (6,773) amalgamated with Abbotsford (706) between 1971 & 1976 censuses

22) Chilliwhack (28,421) merged with Chilliwack (8,634) between 1976 & 1981 censuses

23) Abbotsford (18,864) amalgamated with Matsqui (68,064) between 1991 & 1996 censuses

24) Fort Nelson (4,514) reorganized into Northern Rockies Municipality between 2011 & 2016 

 

https://www2.gov.bc....yword=1921



#2117 VIResident

VIResident
  • Member
  • 585 posts
  • LocationVancouver Island

Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:30 AM

We interrupt this regular programming with a research paper that is NOT the Fraser Institute (and guess what? the paper is contrary to local politicians and city managers/staff (who have produced well researched papers) who state no costs savings to be found.)

 

Bigger Is Better: Reducing the Cost of Local Administration by Increasing Jurisdiction Size in Ontario, Canada, 1995–2010 Timothy W. Cobban1

 

".....The main empirical finding in this article is that increasing local jurisdiction size reduces the cost of local administration. The results provide the most convincing evidence to date that economies of scale exist in local administration and can be captured through consolidation."

 

"....This is consistent with Reingewertz (2012) and Blom-Hansen, Houlberg, and Serritzlew (2014), who studied similar quasi-experiments created by national consolidation programs in Israel and Denmark, respectively. This article builds on these studies, and adds a remarkably broad, deep, and balanced panel of Ontario municipalities, which includes 331 municipalities (102 amalgamated municipalities and 229 nonamalgamated municipalities), ranging in population size from 166 to 2.7 million persons, with observations over a period of 16 years. Two unique characteristics of the Ontario amalgamations, the staggered implementation of the amalgamations and the significant variation in the relative size and complexity of the mergers, allow the relationship between jurisdiction size and administration costs to be more thoroughly explored. "

 

http://www.amalgamat...87417719324.pdf


Edited by VIResident, 20 June 2019 - 03:34 AM.

  • tedward likes this

#2118 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 1,648 posts

Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:30 AM

 
"The American experience - Municipal mergers have proven to be ineffective" - May 18, 2001 - Montreal Economic Institute
 
"Low Expectations For Municipal Amalgamation In Ontario" - Frontier Centre for Public Policy
 
"Discredited ideas and Utopian ideals driving municipal amalgamations" - C.D. Howe Institute study
 
Toronto.. “After 15 years, saying we’re cutting almost $1-billion of services people hold dear tells me that amalgamation is not working.” http://news.national...e-amalgamation/
 
De-amalgamation Analysis of the Sunshine Coast Regional Council PREPARED BY QUEENSLAND TREASURY CORPORATION NOVEMBER 2012. 
 
"Amalgamation" ...the costly experiment that failed.  Regional Ottawa's rural townships are worse off now, than before amalgamation with the city. http://www.ruralcouncil.ca/amalgamation.htm.  Lost representation means less democracy.  The bureaucratic “take-over”.


#2119 On the Level

On the Level
  • Member
  • 1,648 posts

Posted 20 June 2019 - 05:37 AM

We interrupt this regular programming with a research paper that is NOT the Fraser Institute (and guess what? the paper is contrary to local politicians and city managers/staff (who have produced well researched papers) who state no costs savings to be found.)

 

It is from the Fraser Institute and there are many papers that explain why.  Focusing on reducing Councillors that make $18 to $36K to then replace them with a unified police force, fire department etc increases cost.  Do you think any of the new city departments are going to reduce anyone's wages? They all go the highest common denominator. 

 

https://www.fraserin...amation-ontario

 

I still think some amalgamation in the CRD would be beneficial, but lets not kid ourselves.  It is going to increase taxes.


Edited by On the Level, 20 June 2019 - 05:43 AM.


#2120 Victoria Watcher

Victoria Watcher
  • Member
  • 14,223 posts

Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:26 AM

was long duk dong pro-amalgamation i forget.

You're not quite at the end of this discussion topic!

Use the page links at the lower-left to go to the next page to read additional posts.
 



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users