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[Marine] Victoria cruise ship industry | Breakwater District/Ogden Point | News / issues


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#2041 Taco

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:58 AM

With new cruise ships priced in the $1.5 billion range their incomes must take into account the costs of their fleets

Yup, they're expensive, like huge office towers and ocean oil drilling platforms.

The cruise ship is an asset - it's cost is irrelevant given the income and profit generated and the decision to build it is based on the profit already described.  

Trying to feel bad for the cruise industries challenges is a lot like empathizing with facething for it's legal challenges over the use and misuse of our private information.  

Hard to square that circle, lol.



#2042 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:07 AM

 

btw, as a former equity researcher, 17% margin is outstanding!  We should help them as much as possible with my tax money...?

 

well don't bet you not paying for it.  you paid for part of the last ogden upgrade for cruise ships:

 

 

 

VICTORIANov. 29, 2018 /CNW/ - Investing in trade and transportation infrastructure is critical to boosting tourism, helping businesses move their goods to domestic and international markets efficiently, and building a strong economic future for all Canadians.

 

Today, Marco Mendicino, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities and Sonterra Ross, Chief Operating Officer of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority to announce more than $6.8 million in joint funding for a dolphin extension project in Victoria.

 

 

https://www.newswire...-701557422.html

 

 

 

The federal government is pitching in nearly $2 million, while the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority will contribute $4,926,132, making up the $6.8 million total.

 

 

 

https://www.vicnews....oint-extension/


Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 October 2019 - 09:09 AM.


#2043 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:09 AM

I certainly don’t feel good or bad for that industry, but their revenues are not a license to make demands purely on the basis of what they earn.

The City of Victoria generates $250 million in revenues from businesses and residents and every year they raise taxes at two or three times the rate of inflation, driven largely by the purse strings of the downtown business community, which is heavily dependent on tourism.

Would the City of Victoria be in a position to ask for ever increasing sums of money if it weren’t for the cruise ship industry? What about jobs in the City of Victoria? How many jobs would be lost if the cruise ship season were constrained to June-August, and 30% fewer vessels arrived?

We should consider ourselves fortunate that half a million people visit our city thanks to cruise ships. Edmonton doesn’t have that luxury.

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#2044 UDeMan

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:39 AM

I'm sure that Nanaimo would love to take the extra vessels if they are curtailed in Victoria.

 

Nanaimo has been trying for years to expand the cruise ship visits.  



#2045 Nparker

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:49 AM

...Would the City of Victoria be in a position to ask for ever increasing sums of money if it weren’t for the cruise ship industry? What about jobs in the City of Victoria? How many jobs would be lost if the cruise ship season were constrained to June-August, and 30% fewer vessels arrived?

For a lesson in unintended consequences, just ask Carole James about provincial revenues since her government made life "more affordable" while driving down the golden goose that was historic property transfer tax revenues.

 

I'm sure that Nanaimo would love to take the extra vessels if they are curtailed in Victoria.Nanaimo has been trying for years to expand the cruise ship visits.  

Does Nanaimo offer shore power for its cruise ship visits?



#2046 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:03 AM

It offers the pleasant aroma of eau de pulp.
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#2047 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:15 AM

I'm sure that Nanaimo would love to take the extra vessels if they are curtailed in Victoria.

 

Nanaimo has been trying for years to expand the cruise ship visits.  

 

except people want to do something when they get off the ship.  it's quite unclear what they would do after getting off in nanaimo. 



#2048 rmpeers

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:42 AM

except people want to do something when they get off the ship. it's quite unclear what they would do after getting off in nanaimo.


Come on... somone must have a good joke to respond with...
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#2049 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:16 PM

except people want to do something when they get off the ship. it's quite unclear what they would do after getting off in nanaimo.

- casino
- wander downtown, similar in size to others they’ll have visited
- catch a coach to Butchart
- forest discovery centre in Duncan
- Cathedral Grove
- Goats on the Roof
- Rathtrevor Beach
- Float plane tours
- Petroglyph Park

...and that’s just off the top of my head.

There’s a lot to choose from for 4-9 hour stops.

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#2050 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:16 PM

 

Does Nanaimo offer shore power for its cruise ship visits?

 

Does Nanaimo get cruise ship visits?



#2051 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:23 PM

Geez, only two ships in 2018 and only one in 2019? That's pretty rough. But on the bright side, not too, too much concern about the environmental impacts.



#2052 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:34 PM

 

Nanaimo has been trying for years to expand the cruise ship visits.

 

Methinks "expand" isn't the right word. Nanaimo has done everything to try to get some cruise ship visits. Victoria gets the most ships in Canada but doesn't want them. Nanaimo doesn't get any but wants them desperately. This comes back around to my point re: politics and crisis narratives. When you have scarcity, it's a problem. When you have abundance, it's also a problem. Many of Victoria's supposed problems related to abundance are the stuff that most other cities would love to have. Most cities would sell their souls to get a bit of downtown residential development. Victoria resists it.


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#2053 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:43 PM

FYI: I didn't realize that Halifax had installed shore power back in 2014. Halifax doesn't get as many cruise ships as Victoria does (apparently 190 vessels were scheduled for Halifax in 2019, compared to 265 scheduled for Victoria).

 

 

...a $10-million cooperative initiative among the Government of Canada, the Province of Nova Scotia and the Port of Halifax.

"We know that a thriving tourism industry is a key part of ensuring Nova Scotia's economic prosperity and we are happy to grow this sector of Nova Scotia's economy while helping the environment," said Minister MacKay. "...our government is committed to growing Nova Scotia’s economy and creating more jobs."

Transport Canada will contribute up to $5 million to the project. The Province of Nova Scotia and the Port of Halifax will each contribute an additional $2.5 million.

"We know Nova Scotians want good jobs and a thriving tourism industry, and this investment represents part of our jobsHere plan to move toward a more prosperous future,” said MLA Steele. "The province is supporting the businesses and workers that depend on the cruise ship industry, creating quieter and cleaner conditions for visitors and Nova Scotian families, and positioning Nova Scotia as a more attractive destination."

"The support of this project from both the federal and provincial governments will both help the environment and ensure Halifax remains a marquee port-of-call on the Canada-New England itinerary," said Ms. Oldfield. "The cruise industry is an important part of our local economy, generating an estimated $50 million per year in economic impact."

 

For some comparative historical context, here's a 2014 article over at Seatrade Cruise News re: Victoria's situation: "Canada's busiest cruise port of call decides against shore power"

 

Anyway, a tale of three cities. Politics, politics, politics.


Edited by aastra, 20 October 2019 - 02:46 PM.


#2054 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:48 PM

Halifax is a start and end point for some cruises, whereas Victoria is just a stopover, so shore power is a far more critical component of their port’s business model.

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#2055 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:57 PM

 

Halifax is a start and end point, whereas Victoria is just a stopover, so shore power is a far more critical component of their port’s business model.

 

So you're saying shore power wasn't really justified in Juneau? Even though they were the first in the world? Seems odd.

 

 

Princess Shore Power Facts

Programs begun:

Juneau: 2001
Seattle: 2005
Vancouver: 2009
San Francisco: 2010
San Diego: 2010
Los Angeles: 2011
Halifax: 2014
 

Estimated power usage onboard:
100,000 kilowatts/day
 

Estimated power cost:
$4-$5,000/day for surplus hydroelectric power (compared with approx. $3,500/day for diesel fuel if engines were used while in port)
 

Length of time needed to connect the electrical cables, parallel the ship’s diesel generator to the shore power, synchronize, transfer the electrical load and then shut down the ship’s diesel generator:
Approximately 40 minutes
 

Length of time needed to reverse the above procedure prior to departure:
Approximately 30 minutes

from https://www.princess.com/news/



#2056 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:00 PM

Length of time needed to reverse the above procedure prior to departure:
Approximately 30 minutes



unless they just pull away forgetting they are plugged in. then it’s like when you range too far with the vacuum cleaner or the lawn mower. it just unplugs. sometimes it bends the prongs a tad.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 October 2019 - 03:01 PM.


#2057 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:14 PM

Speaking of negative travel reviews and those super tourists (none of whom I've ever met) who can consume an entire city in mere minutes, check this out:

"Cruise website lists Halifax as one of the worst places to revisit"

 

 

An American cruise ship website has ranked the port of Halifax as one of the worst places when it comes to a return destination.

"Once you've made the lovely day trip out to Peggys Cove, eaten your lobster and snapped your requisite lighthouse photo, there's just not much left,"

 

I like the rebuttal:

 

 

The Halifax Port Authority isn’t taking the ranking too seriously.

"This year we're expecting around 300,000 guests on about 200 vessel calls, so it's going to be our busiest season ever for cruise here in Halifax," says Lane Farguson, spokesperson of the port authority.

Farguson says those numbers tell the real story.

"The vessels will go to where the passengers want to go, and we're seeing some very positive momentum based on what has been happening here in Halifax..."



#2058 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:16 PM

So you're saying shore power wasn't really justified in Juneau? Even though they were the first in the world? Seems odd.


I’m saying Victoria might need to be careful in its posturing as other ports can quickly fill its role.

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#2059 aastra

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:17 PM

 

...other ports can quickly fill its role.

 

What's your evidence for that?



#2060 Mike K.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 03:27 PM

The Jones Act doesn’t discriminate.

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