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Parking issues and discussion (City of Victoria & Greater Victoria)


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#4781 todd

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Posted 27 August 2021 - 10:50 PM

The bigger the city, the more of an insignificant number you become.  Ever watched parking wars?  There's nothing like the good old PPA to remind everyone of how insignificant and unimportant the average resident is to society when they park improperly.  
 
 

 
Vandalism!


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#4782 Barrrister

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 05:08 AM

My simple solution to the parking issues (along with dealing with all the druggies) is to simply stop going downtown.  


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#4783 todd

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Posted 28 August 2021 - 10:32 AM

My simple solution to the parking issues (along with dealing with all the druggies) is to simply stop going downtown.  

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#4784 rjag

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 02:20 PM

This is after a 60km drive out to the Peninsula and all around the back roads of North Saanich....I've done approx 125km since Tuesday and 130km since this mark was applied last Saturday

 

That chalk holds up really well....  :muching_out: Maybe want to consider a different type of chalk... just saying. FYI the only time I use that part of the tire is in 2nd gear at about 110-130km/h in a tight hairpin at the track in turn 12, 13 & 15

 

I'm going to be in the View parkade 1 hour free spots tomorrow, wonder what will happen?

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Edited by rjag, 29 August 2021 - 04:46 PM.


#4785 Mike K.

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 03:57 PM

Oh oh. That’s not good.

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#4786 mbjj

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Posted 29 August 2021 - 06:31 PM

My husband parked in a one hour free spot at the library parkade and he had barely gotten out of his car door and the attendant trotted over and took a photo of his license place, lol. Chalk might be passe. So you hardly get an hour to actually do anything!  


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#4787 rjag

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 11:06 AM

Sept 20th, 500km driven since this mark was applied including in the rain this last weekend. Thats some strong chalk! WTF is it wax crayon???

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#4788 Ismo07

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 12:19 PM

Sept 20th, 500km driven since this mark was applied including in the rain this last weekend. Thats some strong chalk! WTF is it wax crayon???

 

No it's just on your sidewall a bit an not contacting the asphalt...  Trust we chalk hundreds a day, if we were seeing an issue, it would be addressed.  


Edited by Ismo07, 20 September 2021 - 12:20 PM.


#4789 sebberry

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 12:33 PM

That chalk is definitely on a part of the tire that makes contact with the road.  If it's sticking around the sidewall that long, perhaps the chalker people should stop vandalizing tires ;) 


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#4790 Ismo07

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 12:49 PM

That chalk is definitely on a part of the tire that makes contact with the road.  If it's sticking around the sidewall that long, perhaps the chalker people should stop vandalizing tires ;)

 

 

Yes they should... so many new people vandalizing...



#4791 Spy Black

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 12:57 PM

The case has been successfully made in the U.S. that chalking tires as part of a parking enforcement procedure is a violation of the 4th Amendment, and is therefore illegal. 

 

As the 4th Amendment relates to "search and seizure", there is likely a reasonable case to make in Canada as well, one that states that chalking tires is also of questionable legality ... from "trespass" to "illegal search without a warrant".

That act of chalking tires anticipates a crime that has not yet been committed ... which is exactly why a warrant is required before making such an assumption - the assumption to be made by a Judge rather than a random guy on a scooter.


Edited by Spy Black, 20 September 2021 - 12:58 PM.

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#4792 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 01:11 PM

why not use plate readers instead?

#4793 lanforod

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 01:16 PM

You sure don't wash that Porsche much, rjag? Or did you just deliberately avoid that tire.



#4794 rjag

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:27 PM

You sure don't wash that Porsche much, rjag? Or did you just deliberately avoid that tire.

 

It gets a warm soapy bath at least once a week including the rims and then ceramic treatment. I have never liked 'dressing' tires as its not a garage queen as you can tell if you look closely at the wear patches on the tires where they have basically melted from track days. I'm deliberately leaving the chalk mark to see how long it takes before it fades away. If it was simple chalk then driving in the rain or using the hose at least 4 times on it would have washed it away....but it hasn't.


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#4795 lanforod

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:31 PM

for sure. simple chalk should be easily gone on the first hose



#4796 Ismo07

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:37 PM

The case has been successfully made in the U.S. that chalking tires as part of a parking enforcement procedure is a violation of the 4th Amendment, and is therefore illegal. 

 

As the 4th Amendment relates to "search and seizure", there is likely a reasonable case to make in Canada as well, one that states that chalking tires is also of questionable legality ... from "trespass" to "illegal search without a warrant".

That act of chalking tires anticipates a crime that has not yet been committed ... which is exactly why a warrant is required before making such an assumption - the assumption to be made by a Judge rather than a random guy on a scooter.

 

Doubt that for Canada...  That's a silly excuse...  Why would digital chalking or noting plates be any different in that case?

 

why not use plate readers instead?

 

Had a few too many other projects, but we used to and the tech wasn't great...  I'm asking for a little something different so it's going to take some time.


Edited by Ismo07, 20 September 2021 - 02:46 PM.


#4797 Spy Black

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 02:49 PM

 That's a silly excuse...  Why would digital chalking or noting plates be any different in that case?

 

Presumably because you're not touching somebodies private property without permission, and in anticipation of a crime not yet commited?

But if it's so silly, I guess I must have made it up Ismo!

 

https://www.npr.org/...es-constitution

https://www.techdirt...amendment.shtml



#4798 Ismo07

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 03:03 PM

Presumably because you're not touching somebodies private property without permission, and in anticipation of a crime not yet commited?

But if it's so silly, I guess I must have made it up Ismo!

 

https://www.npr.org/...es-constitution

https://www.techdirt...amendment.shtml

 

I think this has been overturned since 2019...  I didn't suggest you made it up, the argument is silly...  Judges make mistakes (or they get confused by slick lawyers)...  When your personal property is in public right of way you can certainly touch it.    The chalk itself wasn't the argument was it?  It sounded like it was making a note of it before a violation takes place.  This would still be done in any other fashion, even remembering that it was there.  It's fun when you google it and there are 30 articles that show it's against the 4th amendment but only 1 showing it's been dismissed. 

 

Judge again dismisses Saginaw woman’s lawsuit alleging chalking tires violates Constitution - mlive.com


Edited by Ismo07, 20 September 2021 - 03:18 PM.


#4799 Victoria Watcher

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 03:21 PM

I was trying to think of another real life situation where a potential violator is marked for a future penalty. I could not think of a clear one.

You might get a hand stamp to go into a nightclub or a wrist band at a festival or a lift ticket at a ski hill. But these are all to prove you are compliant from the outset. You only get a penalty if you are found absent these markers.

But not sure where you are marked for future crime. And the unmarked are deemed compliant.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 20 September 2021 - 03:24 PM.

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#4800 Spy Black

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Posted 20 September 2021 - 03:51 PM

When your personal property is in public right of way you can certainly touch it. 

 

Wouldn't that imply that walking down a sidewalk (a public right of way) any police officer could stop me for no reason and cavity search me from head to toe in anticipation that he might find something illegal?

 

Chalking tires anticipates a crime not yet committed, there's really no two ways about the intent of marking somebody's tires ... the question is really more about whether (conceptually) the act of marking someones tires is an imposition on their private property, one taken without a warrant, or whether it is simply illegal from the perspective that it violates some basic rights established by Charter or Constitution.

 

But you're right ... for those times when it's found to be in violation of the 4th Amendment, it's gone to another court and found to be no such violation.

But obviously the discrepancy between the two courts indicates that it remains a grey area, and one that's not fully explored or understood from a legal perspective.



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