5619 replies to this topic

[lanforod]

You spouting nonsense here. Enforcement of parking using chalk isn't infringing on anyone's rights. Neither would enforcement using license plate readers (no effective difference), or average time travelled speed enforcement.

 

The only people affected (outside of edge cases such as this whole latest discussion is about with rjag's car) are the ones who 'break the law'.

[Victoria Watcher]

it seems to be a plate reader that works properly would be twice or three times faster that chalking tires.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 21 September 2021 - 12:52 AM.

[Spy Black]

Enforcement of parking using chalk isn't infringing on anyone's rights. 

 

OK then ... the court cases I linked to aside, you've definitively settled the issue once and for all!

[Ismo07]

I was trying to think of another real life situation where a potential violator is marked for a future penalty. I could not think of a clear one.

You might get a hand stamp to go into a nightclub or a wrist band at a festival or a lift ticket at a ski hill. But these are all to prove you are compliant from the outset. You only get a penalty if you are found absent these markers.

But not sure where you are marked for future crime. And the unmarked are deemed compliant.

 

You are marked when you are compliant ...

 

Wouldn't that imply that walking down a sidewalk (a public right of way) any police officer could stop me for no reason and cavity search me from head to toe in anticipation that he might find something illegal?

 

Chalking tires anticipates a crime not yet committed, there's really no two ways about the intent of marking somebody's tires ... the question is really more about whether (conceptually) the act of marking someones tires is an imposition on their private property, one taken without a warrant, or whether it is simply illegal from the perspective that it violates some basic rights established by Charter or Constitution.

 

But you're right ... for those times when it's found to be in violation of the 4th Amendment, it's gone to another court and found to be no such violation.

But obviously the discrepancy between the two courts indicates that it remains a grey area, and one that's not fully explored or understood from a legal perspective.

 

What?  How are you equating that as the same.. Analogy is ridiculous...  If you leave stuff in the public realm, it is subject to municipal rules.  You can't leave you bags etc strewn around a sidewalk, it will be removed.  Leaving your property in a public setting doesn't mean your property cannot be touched, marked or taken away.  Again your vehicle is marked when it is in compliance, it's not there because it's in anticipation of a crime.  When there is an anticipation of a violation, then a ticket is issued.  Is your argument just that the vehicle is marked?  The chalk on the tire is what this is about?  Courts overturn each other all the time, everything can be a grey area, you should hear the efforts that are made to avoid paying for something. 

[Ismo07]

it seems to be a plate reader that works properly would be twice or three times faster that chalking tires.

 

Yes much faster, issuing the ticket to the vehicle is what slows the process.  I'd rather not just mail tickets like many cities do, so I'm working out another way rather than have the driver find a parking space and issue a ticket.  Almost have it sorted out.

Edited by Ismo07, 21 September 2021 - 11:49 AM.

[Mike K.]

Jet packs?

[vortoozo]

Yes much faster, issuing the ticket to the vehicle is what slows the process.  I'd rather not just mail tickets like man cities do, so I'm working out another way rather than have the driver find a parking space and issue a ticket.  Almost have it sorted out.

 

Ismo, thanks for everything that you do to make parking as efficient as possible in this city, and going into detail explaining the "why". I imagine there are very few cities in the world that have this much engagement re: parking.

There's a certain subset of this forum that believe they know better than anyone else and you are very patient with them.

[Barrrister]

I believe that chalking tires would rationally fall under implied consent as part of the agreement to parking in a rented space.

[Victoria Watcher]

most places where chalking takes place is “free”.

[vortoozo]

most places where chalking takes place is “free”.

 

If you don't want to be chalked, you don't have to park there. 

[Victoria Watcher]

First they came with the chalk, and I did not speak out. For I wasn’t a parker.

[Nparker]

First they came with the chalk, and I did not speak out. For I wasn’t a parker.

Or even an Nparker.

[LJ]

 

  You can't leave you bags etc strewn around a sidewalk, it will be removed. 

You don't live in Victoria do you?

[Spy Black]

There's a certain subset of this forum that believe they know better than anyone else and you are very patient with them.

Considering that the City of Victoria is about as far removed from a "bastion of quality governance" as is possible ... thank goodness there are folks on this forum (and elsewhere) willing to ask questions, and posit alternative viewpoints from COV bureaucrats and politicians.

 

I accept nothing at face value if it comes from a politician or bureaucrat ... and although you shouldn't either, you're obviously welcome to if it suits you.

I'll remain patient with you regardless.

[Nparker]

...I accept nothing at face value if it comes from a politician or bureaucrat ... 

This.

[Ismo07]

You don't live in Victoria do you?

 

I do, does that matter?  Can I ask why you asked?

Edited by Ismo07, 22 September 2021 - 07:57 AM.

[Spy Black]

I do, does that matter?  Can I ask why you asked?

I suspect your statement in your earlier post, where you said "You can't leave you bags etc strewn around a sidewalk, it will be removed" is being questioned as it tends to imply that you've not driven down Pandora Street (in the City of Victoria) and seen the 15 garbage trucks full of "junk" that folks have been leaving on the boulevards and medians for the past decade or so.

As well as Beacon Hill Park, Topaz Park ... etc, etc.

 

Just guessing though.

Edited by Spy Black, 22 September 2021 - 08:38 AM.

[Ismo07]

I suspect your statement in your earlier post, where you said "You can't leave you bags etc strewn around a sidewalk, it will be removed" is being questioned as it tends to imply that you've not driven down Pandora Street (in the City of Victoria) and seen the 15 garbage trucks full of "junk" that folks have been leaving on the boulevards and medians for the past decade or so.

As well as Beacon Hill Park, Topaz Park ... etc, etc.

 

Just guessing though.

 

Ah I see, people can't speed either but they do.  Folks need to get straight that bylaws are there, are there many more violations across the City that can be addressed.  Doesn't make it ok.  There are many cases of chattel being removed from sidewalks.   Bylaw and police are taxed right now so I suppose pointing out the worst in the City is easy to do.  Cherry picking is pretty common these days sadly...

[Spy Black]

Pointing out the worst in the City of Victoria is "easy to do" simply because the downtown core in the City of Victoria is ... well ... pretty darn bad.

 

I appreciate that you personally choose to look at 'the good side' of the City of Victoria (and there is a good side, just not in the downtown core) ... but the reality is, for those of us who are downtown every day, and who own or manage large properties in the downtown core ... is that the COV is a bit of a sewer - 24/7/365.

 

It's got nothing to do with Cherry Picking anything, except perhaps which by-laws the City of Victoria chooses to enforce ... in this case chalking tires and giving folks parking tickets, all the while hundreds of miscreants have set up homes on sidewalks and boulevards.

Edited by Spy Black, 22 September 2021 - 08:58 AM.

[Ismo07]

Pointing out the worst in the City of Victoria is "easy to do" simply because the downtown core in the City of Victoria is ... well ... pretty darn bad.

 

I appreciate that you personally choose to look at 'the good side' of the City of Victoria (and there is a good side, just not in the downtown core) ... but the reality is, for those of us who are downtown every day, and who own or manage large properties in the downtown core ... is that the COV is a bit of a sewer - 24/7/365.

 

It's got nothing to do with Cherry Picking anything, except perhaps which by-laws the City of Victoria chooses to enforce ... in this case chalking tires and giving folks parking tickets, all the while hundreds of miscreants have set up homes on sidewalks and boulevards.

 

 

We will disagree on this certainly...  That is the exact cherry picking I was talking about... 700-900 Pandora is hardly downtown, and it's the least palatable part of the City...  Lot's of good downtown still...  But yes getting back to parking, while I manage this section, we will continue to work and provide those services.  If you are sad that you car gets chalked while someone with really little choice due to mental distress tries to shelter, I'm not going to be able to help with that one.

Edited by Ismo07, 22 September 2021 - 09:10 AM.