972 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

^ironic, ain't it?

[sebberry]

I don't like Harper's "tough on crime" agenda where it imposes minimum sentences on people who grow a few pot plants, or upload a few illegal movies. It comes with a much too Americanized mentality on freedoms and rights.

That being said, I don't think there's a link between sharing a few movies online and setting cars on fire and starting riots.

[Bernard]

I don't like Harper's "tough on crime" agenda where it imposes minimum sentences on people who grow a few pot plants, or upload a few illegal movies. It comes with a much too Americanized mentality on freedoms and rights.

That being said, I don't think there's a link between sharing a few movies online and setting cars on fire and starting riots.

Do you want minimum sentences on violent crimes? On property damage crimes? Theft?

The reaction to the rioters sounds like American lock them all up mentality to me.

I am not condoning what happened, but the public seems to want a much harsher punishment of the rioters than what normally happens in the criminal justice system.

One thing everyone has to remember and never forget is that the vast majority of the rioters are hardcore life long Canucks fans. They are the true face of a hardcore Canucks fan.

[AllseeingEye]

um....no. The vast majority of the rioters were under-25 punks and mostly, although not exclusively, male.

My 76 year old father is a 'hard core' Canucks fan, and yet he has not, as far as I am aware, ever gone around on a chromosome-challenged rampage and wantonly destroyed public and private property. Neither I'd wager have the vast vast majority of true hard core Canuck fans in this province.

And insofar as the so-called "American" mentality goes, IMO you want to run around terrorizing the general public and in the process loot and pillage and set fire to a densely populated city core? All the while potentially endangering the lives of thousands of people, and not incidentally in the process causing untold millions in damage? Why in that case I say the police are entirely justified in beating the living ###t out of you with the nearest available tuncheon and then by all means tossing your sorry a$$ into the nearest jail. I feel quite confident that 99.8% of British Columbians would agree with me.

The only thing "hard core" about those lunatics is that they are hard core punks and lower life forms. If they represent the 'true face' of Canuck's fans then I for one will cheer for just about any other team. Except the Leafs....

[Sparky]

My 76 year old father is a 'hard core' Canucks fan, and yet he has not, as far as I am aware, ever gone around on a chromosome-challenged rampage and wantonly destroyed public and private property.

Say hi to Bob for me. I would keep an eye on him if I were you.

[yodsaker]

Do you want minimum sentences on violent crimes? On property damage crimes? Theft?

The reaction to the rioters sounds like American lock them all up mentality to me.

I am not condoning what happened, but the public seems to want a much harsher punishment of the rioters than what normally happens in the criminal justice system.

One thing everyone has to remember and never forget is that the vast majority of the rioters are hardcore life long Canucks fans. They are the true face of a hardcore Canucks fan.

Do tell. How do you know this?

[AllseeingEye]

Will do Sparky: you know those retired ex-media types - always swapping war stories about the "good old days" (hey who remembers video tape anyway???), in addition to grumbling about today's new fangled technology, and finally sharing tips the nearest drug store where they can still find Brylcreem and cheap Hai Karate after shave....

[yodsaker]

Good column by Damien Cox, Toronto Star who witnessed the riot from his hotel balcony on Burrard St.

http://thestar.blogs...if-this-go.html

[aastra]

Good comment to that article:

You are leaving out one other key ingredient to the hooliganism. Hockey in Canada is becoming infused with a boorish Nationalism that increases the stakes in these games far beyond what they merit.

In the last 10 or 15 years the media have really gone overboard with the hockey-inspired pop culture patriotism. The CBC in particular has all but gone bananas. Endless documentaries about hockey and hockey's cultural relevance, "historical" dramas about hockey events or personalities, "town hall" style discussion shows... always very heavy on the cornball faux-nationalism. Commercial advertising does it, too.

If they were doing this sort of thing in the US about baseball we'd be barfing. Methinks it was probably Ken Burns' series that really inspired it all, now that I say that. But in Canada we've really gone way over the top.

[VicHockeyFan]

Good column by Damien Cox, Toronto Star who witnessed the riot from his hotel balcony on Burrard St.

http://thestar.blogs...if-this-go.html

That is a good article.

But we know the riot would have no happened, but for the game, but the game should not in any be held responsible for the rioot
E

[yodsaker]

Good comment to that article:

In the last 10 or 15 years the media have really gone overboard with the hockey-inspired pop culture patriotism. The CBC in particular has all but gone bananas. Endless documentaries about hockey and hockey's cultural relevance, "historical" dramas about hockey events or personalities, "town hall" style discussion shows... always very heavy on the cornball faux-nationalism. Commercial advertising does it, too.

If they were doing this sort of thing in the US about baseball we'd be barfing. Methinks it was probably Ken Burns' series that really inspired it all, now that I say that. But in Canada we've really gone way over the top.

Agree 100%

[yodsaker]

That is a good article.

But we know the riot would have no happened, but for the game, but the game should not in any be held responsible for the rioot
E

Yes, you've made a good and proper distinction VHF.

[Mike K.]

Does this mean we're taking slow steps towards something like European style soccer hooliganism if Canadians become even more indoctrinated with Canadian hockey trivia?

[VicHockeyFan]

Does this mean we're taking slow steps towards something like European style soccer hooliganism if Canadians become even more indoctrinated with Canadian hockey trivia?

Well, this is a good article:

http://www.theglobea...article2066321/

[Holden West]

^An excellent take, I agree 100%. It will likely go behind the pay wall so here is a key quote:

... hundreds of otherwise normal, seemingly well-adjusted kids looked at the riot as an opportunity for a type of social and cultural timeout where the normal rules of behaviour and social interaction did not apply.

Those that blame the riot on evil scum are refusing to face reality.

It was a complex situation. True, the 2010 anarchists and other no-hope sleazeballs were some of the original sparks that set off the riot. And the "spectators" that passively observed, or even egged on and encouraged the rioters are to blame as well.

Jail would be pointless, expensive and counterproductive to otherwise good kids like that high school water polo player. A combination of hefty fines and community service would be appropriate.

I wish there was some way to put the rioters through a fast assembly-line court system so they could be given their punishment efficiently without burdening the justice system. I fear many will escape justice just because of the overwhelming number of offenders.

[VicHockeyFan]

Jail would be pointless, expensive and counterproductive to otherwise good kids like that high school water polo player. A combination of hefty fines and community service would be appropriate.

I wish there was some way to put the rioters through a fast assembly-line court system so they could be given their punishment efficiently without burdening the justice system. I fear many will escape justice just because of the overwhelming number of offenders.

The ones that turned themselves in already could conceivably be in court, plead guilty and be sentenced within a month. But I'm guessing penalties that will not sit well with the public (light in their minds) will mean that all cases are held off until a much later date, the not-guilty pleaders will be sentenced near the same time as the guilties.

Here is one of the strangest thing about these riots. A LOT of the rioters knew they were being photographed, that's sort of the only reason they posed on top of the cars and stuff. It's almost like a temporary insanity (not saying that should be used in court as a defence), how these guys did not understand that those photos were gonna go everywhere.

Now, a few of the guys that maybe posed on an already overturned or totalled car thought what that what were doing was not an offence, and indeed it might not be. Strange all the same.

I hear there is lots of video of looters showing off their booty on the Skytrain. That'll be tough to prove based on those shots alone, but that seems odd too.

[G-Man]

I was listening to a radio show that was commenting on how the intense amount of cameras and video had a huge impact on how the event was handled by the police. They took extreme caution to not be seen to be overreacting while the rioters had no knowledge or understanding of the filming of their actions.

[aastra]

...the rioters had no knowledge or understanding of the filming of their actions.

Say what?

[ChrisA]

If I were to wander downtown this afternoon, stuff a rag into a parked police car, and set that rag on fire, I would be arrested and probably imprisoned. I am hard-pressed to think of any reason that I should not be arrested and imprisoned if instead I blow up a parked car during a riot.

I think psychologists would agree that people in a riot may perceive that the "normal rules of behaviour and social interaction do not apply," but that isn't a mitigating factor, if anything, it's an aggravating factor. Normally our behavior is constrained by those normal rules; we need the criminal justice system more, not less, when those rules don't apply.

If we slap the violent rioters on the wrist instead of punishing these crimes as we would in any other context, we encourage more violent rioting in the future.

[Lorenzo]

Where does everyone stand on the fate of the Water Polo arsonist who "turned himself in", no doubt at the insistence of his father? Do you think he would have done the "right thing" had he not saw his image on Youtube?

I have thought long and hard about this. I studied that photo intently. Although he claims never to had as much as a speeding ticket, my experience tells me that this not his first foray into the vandalism realm.

I know that this board is inhabited by well educated, insightful, compassionate people. I try to exhibit the latter two qualities, but all I can say is too bad for his scholarship and future on the WP team. They don't need him or his type. He has to pay for this, criminally, civilly, and educationally.

I have no faith in the justice system to deal with these offenders properly. Perrhaps the reaction of the "global village" such as employers, educators, friends, family, and the civil court system will put an appropriate leash on these offenders for the rest of their lives.