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Douglas House
Uses: office, commercial
Address: 1515 Douglas Street
Municipality: Victoria
Region: Downtown Victoria
Storeys: 6
Douglas House is a six-storey, 111,428 square foot office complex with ground floor retail space at the inters... (view full profile)
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[Downtown Victoria] 1515 Douglas and 750 Pandora | Office; commercial | 6- & 13-storeys (53.6m & 27.4m) | Completed - Built in 2018 and 2017

Office Commercial

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#21 Nparker

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 09:41 AM

The spaces are great if there is activity.


Well before we create more of these dead zones let's see if the ones that we currently have come to life. In close to 30 years, the "Rotherham void" has never had any vitality and I have yet to see crowds forming outside the Astoria/Belvedere/Aria plazas.

#22 Baro

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:15 AM

If we used these void spaces for buildings that housed, served, and employed people, we'd see the other voids actually filled with some people.

But it's not about function to the people pushing these, it's about how it looks on a site plan, how it looks from far above. City planners and politicians love maps and how things look from a god-angle, but think nothing of how things look from the street, from the user's perspective.
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#23 SamCB

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Posted 21 October 2011 - 10:57 AM

If we used these void spaces for buildings that housed, served, and employed people, we'd see the other voids actually filled with some people.

But it's not about function to the people pushing these, it's about how it looks on a site plan, how it looks from far above. City planners and politicians love maps and how things look from a god-angle, but think nothing of how things look from the street, from the user's perspective.


so true on both points.

without a critical mass of residenial nearby, plazas become homeless hangouts after 5pm.

I have a feeling arbitrary FARs are also to blame for kind of design.

#24 Mike K.

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:41 AM

Jawl is planning to build nearly 200,000 sq. ft. of space on the Roth Site. The architect is D'ambrosio.

Race is on to build downtown Victoria’s next office building
By Mike Kozakowski, VibrantVictoria.ca
http://vibrantvictor...ffice-building/

The purchase of the Roth Site in the 700-block of Pandora by Jawl Properties and it’s appetite to build an office building on the lot, together with the news that developers of the 15-storey Gateway Green office proposal are fielding calls from the provincial government, hint at yet another race in the making to build downtown Victoria’s next major office building.

Travis Lee of Tri-Eagle Development says the company’s Gateway Green tower has an advantage over every other office proposal in town: the project is only “60 days” away from a construction start the moment a key tenant is signed. [Read more].


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#25 G-Man

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:51 AM

Wow great news. I would really like to see Gateway Green get the nod though.

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#26 Mike K.

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:15 AM

Robert Jawl of Jawl Properties also said that this is one of the most prominent downtown development sites according to the new downtown plan.

For comparisons sake, it took about two years from the start of planning to the start of construction with the Atrium project, Jawl said. They can expect a similar timeline at the Roth Site, which really does give Gateway Green a tremendous advantage if a serious tenant should appear in the very near future and expects to move into new offices by 2014.

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#27 Szeven

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:07 AM

Would be shocking to see something else picked over the Jawls.

#28 Mike K.

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 02:15 PM

Coupled with what some say are very small floorplates that are less desirable by tenants, the Gateway Green team has a difficult road ahead of them now that Jawl is once again in the running.

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#29 concorde

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:08 PM

People keep forgetting that Mike Jawl, Bobby Jawl's nephew, is one of the main players behind Gateway Green.

#30 Baro

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:14 PM

Jawl vs Jawl!

I just hope what ever gets built is a good solid building. As long as it's at least as good as the atrium, I'll be happy. A good project here could make or break the area. A dead office-park style development like the horrible brick office building and paved plaza next door would be the nail in the coffin, but a good project could breath some life into the area.
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#31 jonny

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 08:40 PM

Agreed Baro. However, GG looks like a nice building from the renderings and plans I have seen so I think that will be a nice addition once it is built.

The thing that worries me about this particular site is that it's so large. It seems bigger than the Atrium site, but I don't know for sure. A single 15+ story tower wouldn't cover nearly enough space at this site. I would prefer two towers at this location, rather than a short fat building like the Atrium or 1515 Blanshard.

New short fat buildings do not belong in between Douglas and Blanshard IMO, especially at this prominent location.

#32 baconnbits

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:04 PM

government tenants tend to prefer larger floor plates. Government departments are generally quite large, encompassing a lot of employees, as a result they want all their department members to be located on the same floor for ease of communication etc.
Private sector firms are generally more nimble and smaller. they employee (for the most part) less people and as a result prefer, and can, make do with smaller tenancy areas. or where they are large and they can take up a whole floor of a smaller building and divide the floor plate into departments. Or if they are quite large, they can put corporate heads and assistants and other key personel on one floor, with other departmetns or support staff on other floors.
The point being, that given the size of government tenants, they are better suited to large floor plate buildings.

The primary tenants in victoria who can pre-committ to enough of a building that would enable a developer to access bank funding, are government tenants.
There is not enough private demand to pre-commit to a large building like gateway green. They wouldn't get nearly enough space taken up pre development to obtain funding. so the only way a site like that will be going up in victoria in the absence of significant pre-committment, is if minimal debt is required to fund the development.

In the absence of a large floor plate alternative site, a government tenant would probably shoot for something like GG. However, with an alternative popping up I would suspect government tenants will hold off 6-12-18 months before comitting to new space. in this instance, im suggesting that they'll go for the Roth Site.

The final point being, is that if you want to ensure a building goes up in victoria. make it appeal to government tenants or small enough in height and size that it can be taken up by privates.

on that note. anyone know which government tenants might have leases expiring in 2-3 years and be wanting to move?

#33 G-Man

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:11 PM

^ People keep saying this but really there are many govt tenants in small floorplate buildings. Just think about the small building at Johnson and Blanshard. Or the Belmont building. Or the Robert Kerr building. There many many more.

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#34 Nparker

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:15 PM

And I know of MANY government divisions that are spread all over large floor plate buildings. They would function just as well in a taller, narrower building. My office is half-a-building and a floor away from our ADM, and my divison also has a presence on parts of 4 other floors in the building.

#35 G-Man

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:19 PM

^ My branch is split on two floors, my division on three. Thanks NP another good point.

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It has a whole new look!

 


#36 Nparker

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:22 PM

My feeling is if GG were to be started today that they wouldn't have any trouble finding gov't tenants assuming the lease rates were reasonable.

#37 Mike K.

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:18 AM

People keep forgetting that Mike Jawl, Bobby Jawl's nephew, is one of the main players behind Gateway Green.


He is, but he is not affiliated with Jawl Properties and runs his own development firm that often partners with Tri-Eagle on projects. At least that's what the optics of their relationship appears to be.

Mike Jawl and Tri-Eagle are partners on Gateway Green, 947 Fort and their latest residential project is in Saanich just a stones throw to the north from Uptown.

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#38 Layne French

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 08:39 AM

what is the Class AA vacancy rate in the region? I highly doubt this project will be ready to go anytime soon :(. Office space tends to take quite awhile to come to fruition.

I hope I'm wrong on this, but seeing developers doing the dance out here with absorption rates over a million and vacancy rates dropping by 25% per quarter makes me a bit cynical

#39 Mike K.

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 10:51 AM

^ People keep saying this but really there are many govt tenants in small floorplate buildings. Just think about the small building at Johnson and Blanshard. Or the Belmont building. Or the Robert Kerr building. There many many more.


I recall ex-Mayor Lowe once stated that Gateway Green is a dead project because of small floor plates.

For whatever it's worth.

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#40 baconnbits

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:12 PM

^ People keep saying this but really there are many govt tenants in small floorplate buildings. Just think about the small building at Johnson and Blanshard. Or the Belmont building. Or the Robert Kerr building. There many many more.


again. see "where government tenants have a choice between a large floor plate building and a small floor plate building, they will almost always go for the large floor plate"

They would appear to have a choice here. much as they had a choice between GG and the Atrium and Uptown - they went to the latter two.

They might be in small floor plate buildlings at the moment, but given the chance they will move onto larger floor plates to consolidate departments onto one floor.

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