11042 replies to this topic

[Jason-L]

It's almost like, despite all these efforts, a significant chunk of the population doesn't want to ride a bike.

[spanky123]

It's almost like, despite all these efforts, a significant chunk of the population doesn't want to ride a bike.

 

I don't think that want has a lot to do with it. We have one of the oldest populations in Canada and all of our projected growth in the next 20 years will be from retirees. There reaches a point where a bike is not physically a viable option for many people. 

[Greg]

I don't think that want has a lot to do with it. We have one of the oldest populations in Canada and all of our projected growth in the next 20 years will be from retirees. There reaches a point where a bike is not physically a viable option for many people. 

 

That's an argument for better transit, not better car infrastructure. Unless you are the TC columnist who gets to write up all the "car crashes through front window of store" articles.

[Nparker]

That's an argument for better transit, not better car infrastructure...

How so? There are plenty of older people who are perfectly capable of driving a car, but who physically may not be able to ride a bike for a host of reasons.

[rjag]

Gotta wonder how simple some folks lives are that they can go through their day by just bike or bus. Good for them.

No way most of my days could be as simple as that.

[Cats4Hire]

More luck than simple. I live along 30/31 route which can get me to Royal Oak, Uptown, Mayfair and downtown without any transfers and run pretty regularly. Places they can't get me to are usually pretty easy to transfer to once as well. I can get to Swartz Bay, UVic, both Camosun campuses, Jubilee hospital, Dockyard, Hillside and Tillicum Malls, etc with only one transfer mostly using high frequency routes. West Shore areas and VGH are the only annoying places I can think of that are annoying to get to.

[Mike K.]

It is indeed very odd how limited transportation is to the Westshore from Royal Oak and the peninsula, but I wonder if the Wilkinson bottleneck accounts for the preference to route people through connections way further south?

 

With McKenzie opening soon we might see transit introduce a more frequent routing via Royal Oak to the Westshore via McKenzie.

[On the Level]

Gotta wonder how simple some folks lives are that they can go through their day by just bike or bus. Good for them.

No way most of my days could be as simple as that.

 

I think the idea of bike infrastructure (and much of what we have) is fantastic but I have an issue with it because transportation is not being managed holistically.

 

Those that demand cars get pushed off the road and parking be eliminated are the least likely to care or have an understanding what others are faced with.  Perhaps their job does not require access to personal transportation.  Perhaps they are not responsible to transport multiple children to daycare, hockey, swimming lessons etc etc.  Perhaps they do not have a health issue (yet) preventing them from biking daily.

 

There seems to be no desire to realistically estimate how many commuters will use the bike lanes from December through February.  There is no estimate for the percentage of the population unable to commute via a bike.  Until someone is able to take a logical unbiased view of transportation needs, it is only going to get worse.   

Edited by On the Level, 11 December 2019 - 01:58 PM.

[Nparker]

None of those considerations are relevant during a      !!! CLIMATE EMERGENCY !!!     

[Ismo07]

I think the idea of bike infrastructure (and much of what we have) is fantastic but I have an issue with it because transportation is not being managed holistically.

 

Those that demand cars get pushed off the road and parking be eliminated are the least likely to care or have an understanding what others are faced with.  Perhaps their job does not require access to personal transportation.  Perhaps they are not responsible to transport multiple children to daycare, hockey, swimming lessons etc etc.  Perhaps they do not have a health issue (yet) preventing them from biking daily.

 

There seems to be no desire to realistically estimate how many commuters will use the bike lanes from December through February.  There is no estimate for the percentage of the population unable to commute via a bike.  Until someone is able to take a logical unbiased view of transportation needs, it is only going to get worse.   

I'm not sure I fully understand this and I appreciate the likes it got.  The intent of the bike lanes, from my view, is to increase the amount of people riding, which it has done, I don't think there is an argument there, and it continues to grow especially where buildings have end of trip bike facilities.  The intent isn't for everyone to ride.  There are still roads and car use and there likely in our life times (some of us with less time than others) where cars aren't used. e is certainly a shift towards multi-modal transportation.  This is happening as a necessity or not it's happening for many reasons not cause of one or two. 

 

Realistically if we increase riders (even just commuters) between December and February by a couple tenths of a % that's simple less single occupancy vehicles on the road.  If this increase happens every year then it's a positive and taking more vehicles off the road (as that number is still increasing as more move into the region).

 

The intent has never been to remove all the vehicles off the road but there is a vision of reducing the increase that is occurring.  End of the day that will help manage the congestion coming from increased population and the cars that brings and that is occurring from just the natural growth.

 

If we look back at all the concerns, remember them?  Congestion, cars hitting open doors on narrow lanes, no bikes in the lanes....  Yes there will always be complaints but for the most part things are all getting figured out and really things are going quite well. This is from someone who was not on board with bike lanes form the beginning and who lives downtown so I see them all the time, I also work downtown so I do watch them with a very critical eye. 

 

I still have the open challenge of walking around town and discussing the issues you all rant about.  Congestion on Wharf, the wait times at the right turns on red and all the other concerns that are listed here.  They are hardly the levels that are being ranted about.  Yes at busy times things are a tad slower as would be anywhere when things are busy.  This happens in all communities not just downtown.  Anyway you pick the busiest time and let's stand out and watch the issues in real time.  You might be surprised.

Edited by Ismo07, 12 December 2019 - 09:59 AM.

[mbjj]

My husband had to drive me to an appt. on Wharf St. yesterday. We went straight down Yates around 10:15 and the traffic was so backed up coming from the bridge direction, we couldn't see the end of it. Thank goodness someone let us in. As I recently had surgery he had to drop me off fairly close so we parked down by the float planes. Coming out of that parking area up the ramp about 45 minutes later, the traffic was just as bad, again, thankfully someone let us in. That was the first time we had driven down there since the changes and I wouldn't do it again if I didn't have an appt. to get to.

[On the Level]

I'm not sure I fully understand this and I appreciate the likes it got.   

 

Realistically if we increase riders (even just commuters) between December and February by a couple tenths of a % that's simple less single occupancy vehicles on the road.  If this increase happens every year then it's a positive and taking more vehicles off the road (as that number is still increasing as more move into the region).

 

The intent has never been to remove all the vehicles off the road but there is a vision of reducing the increase that is occurring.  

 

I am afraid I don't agree with your assessment.  When we hear of "traffic calming" to reduce the number of vehicles on Richardson from 4,000 to 3,000 or even possibly 1,000 a day, where is this traffic to go?  What about the other streets like Wharf or Dallas Road?  When we hear of speed limits being reduced from 50km to 30km, that effectively reduces capacity by 40%.  

 

The "couple of tenths of a %" of possible bike commuters will not offset the reduction of capacity.  

[Ismo07]

I am afraid I don't agree with your assessment.  When we hear of "traffic calming" to reduce the number of vehicles on Richardson from 4,000 to 3,000 or even possibly 1,000 a day, where is this traffic to go?  What about the other streets like Wharf or Dallas Road?  When we hear of speed limits being reduced from 50km to 30km, that effectively reduces capacity by 40%.  

 

The "couple of tenths of a %" of possible bike commuters will not offset the reduction of capacity.  

I'm mostly talking about downtown and completed bike lanes...  When I referred to tenths of % it meant a growth (monthly or quarterly) and not on the final number, which is still not materializing...  Cycling numbers are increasing certainly I just don't want to refer to specific numbers as I don't know them.

 

Richardson changes are not in this reviewers perspective right now as it's still being discussed, I can only speak to the changes that have occurred and facts regarding them.  Although I would have thoughts on proposed changes I like to see what actually happens.

 

CBC interview with planner in Ottawa about advisory bike lanes.

 

http://mms.tveyes.co...jI2MDUzZGNiY2I4

Edited by Ismo07, 12 December 2019 - 11:02 AM.

[DustMagnet]

^ Wow.  The speech-to-text system that TVEyes is using is Not Ready For Primetime.

 

The bike lanes around here are pretty much advisory anyway.  There is never a day where I am driving around here where I don't follow someone who ignores the solid white line and drives with a wheel in it, but I don't see that when there are cyclists using the lanes (whether I am driving or cycling).

[On the Level]

I'm mostly talking about downtown and completed bike lanes...  

 

OK, but when you say "downtown and completed bike lanes" are you factoring in what the effect is to those lanes for the CRD and how that will impact you? 

 

The Regional Growth Strategy has been pushing growth out of the core for over 30 years.  The further you push large populations away from the core, the less feasible bike commuting becomes.  The latest Growth Strategy has the growth of downtown at 17,100 with the rest if the CRD at 77,800.  Given the official community plan has 80% growth in areas questionable for bike commuting, what is a realistic transportation plan?   

 

By reducing long distance commuting capacity for short, what is the end result going to be next year or 10 years from now?

 

What is the plan?  Hopefully not View Royal's where citizens can't get anywhere near their homes because of self imposed gridlock.

[Ismo07]

OK, but when you say "downtown and completed bike lanes" are you factoring in what the effect is to those lanes for the CRD and how that will impact you? 

 

The Regional Growth Strategy has been pushing growth out of the core for over 30 years.  The further you push large populations away from the core, the less feasible bike commuting becomes.  The latest Growth Strategy has the growth of downtown at 17,100 with the rest if the CRD at 77,800.  Given the official community plan has 80% growth in areas questionable for bike commuting, what is a realistic transportation plan?   

 

By reducing long distance commuting capacity for short, what is the end result going to be next year or 10 years from now?

 

What is the plan?  Hopefully not View Royal's where citizens can't get anywhere near their homes because of self imposed gridlock.

 

This is been my point is that the growth is occurring, there are many ways to mitigate transportation choices, if we don't we are in a lot more trouble.  Bike lanes are one of the way as would be transit and bus lanes.  The intent is making alternatives easier, mostly for commuters to make those choices.  There have been increases to cycling for commuters, even from the West Shore compared to what it was even 5 years ago.  These electric bikes make it a reality that the Goose could get you downtown in a comparable time while being less expensive both in fuel and vehicle storage.  Transit times both way has improved and will improve even more which is also less expensive. 

 

The intent will never be that 100% of people will be riding.  Similarly 100% of that growth will not be commuting into the core.  There is likely a decent % of the people moving into the downtown will actually work within 1-2km of their employment. It's quite likely where a 60 lot parking lot gets developed to a 120 unit building, it might very well be that a good deal of the residents in that building will work downtown, maybe even more than the 60 single occupancy vehicles that used that parking lot.  At the very least a large majority of those will access services and amenities downtown regularly enough by walking that it reduces that many more vehicles driving into the core.  There are so many factors at play.

 

Death by a thousand cuts. 

 

Obviously there will be a capacity for the downtown core with respect to vehicles and traffic.  We just aren't there yet.  As downtown expands and spreads out through that time of population growth I'm not sure when we will get to that point. 

Edited by Ismo07, 13 December 2019 - 08:36 AM.

[Nparker]

...Death by a thousand cuts....

Is this unofficial name of the CoV's policy towards vehicular traffic in the city? It would seem so based on the current state of road maintenance.

[Mike K.]

Obviously there will be a capacity for the downtown core with respect to vehicles and traffic.  We just aren't there yet.  As downtown expands and spreads out through that time of population growth I'm not sure when we will get to that point. 

 

Are we sure that we're not there yet? Because the number of vehicles traversing through downtown has begun to decrease, and quite sharply. It's a combination of individuals like myself choosing not to come into the downtown core for meetings or quick shopping stops, people living in the downtown core and walking to work, and people who can using their bikes or walking.

 

But the shift has begun and surely I'm not the only person who tries to avoid the downtown core to save time.

[mbjj]

Is this unofficial name of the CoV's policy towards vehicular traffic in the city? It would seem so based on the current state of road maintenance.

When you've just had abdominal surgery, you notice every pothole and rough surface. Driving to the hospital along Richmond is pretty bad.

 

I heard Helps on the radio saying "oh well, if this doesn't work on Richardson then we definitely need separated bike lanes there"! Why can't the woman just admit that Richardson is fine as is. We drive on Richardson every day. If these advisory lanes go through I intend to drive as I drive now, as far to the right as possible and if there's a bike, I'll just safely pass. No way I'm going down the middle of the road.

[Nparker]

...Why can't the woman just admit that Richardson is fine as is...

And suggest she is wrong? Has she ever admitted to being wrong during her time as mayor?