2560 replies to this topic

[Mike K.]

Gentlemen, please.

I know one thing, and that’s that I would never pick a fight with Cassidy on the street (but I did just hide one of Cassidy’s posts). For Pete’s sake, can we please ease up on the poorly veiled cuss words and keep it PG?

[Rob Randall]

Stupidest thing I've ever read.

 

 

Honestly, you have no idea what you're even talking about.

 

 

This is the weirdest thread I've ever read, or participated in.

 

You people who believe that "anybody" can leave a kid to die in a hot car need to go get your fuc_ing heads checked out.

 

Normal people don't leave their kids in a hot car.

 

Idiots.

 

I ask you to do one thing. Read Gene Weingarten's Fatal Distraction if you can stomach it.

 

https://www.washingt...2a52_story.html

[Cassidy]

Sorry Mike, I shall restrain myself.

 

These uninformed, broad statements ... made in such a manner as to direct some sort of "scolding" back at me for daring to call those who leave their kids in hot cars "far from normal" have to be addressed for the uninformed garbage that they are.

 

Beyond that, I'm done here (at least until the next person decides to quote me, or mention me by name in some sort of twisted effort to make their lame point).

[Mike K.]

Two float planes collided in mid air today. Nobody is rushing to excuse the incident as normal. Why are we rushing to excuse leaving a child in a car for a third of a day as normal?

There’s normal, and then there’s abnormal. But one situation can’t be both.

[Rob Randall]

Sorry Mike, I shall restrain myself.

 

These uninformed, broad statements ... made in such a manner as to direct some sort of "scolding" back at me for daring to call those who leave their kids in hot cars "far from normal" have to be addressed for the uninformed garbage that they are.

 

Beyond that, I'm done here (at least until the next person decides to quote me, or mention me by name in some sort of twisted effort to make their lame point).

 

But people who know more about the subject than you or I say that you are wrong and provide strong evidence saying so. And I'm interested in knowing why you disagree so strongly. 

 

I'm not looking for a fight I just find the topic fascinating. I read about it years ago and have been learning all I can about it.

[Midnightly]

i am not trying to pass it off as something "normal" i am saying i can understand how such an accident can happen.. the cases of it happening are rare (not normal or common) considering how many people drive their kids to and from care every day... but they do happen... and i will not drag out the pitch forks and attack the parents over it, i'm sure they are already deep in grief.. and until something otherwise states it was anything other then an accident i'll continue to believe it is a horrible accident

[Victoria Watcher]

strange reaction. you ever leave a bathtub running or leave something on top of your car and drive away?

stuff happens. extremely rarely.

[Cassidy]

But people who know more about the subject than you or I say that you are wrong and provide strong evidence saying so. And I'm interested in knowing why you disagree so strongly. 

 

I'm not looking for a fight I just find the topic fascinating. I read about it years ago and have been learning all I can about it.

Because leaving your child to die in a hot car isn't "normal", and therefore it must be "abnormal" (it can't be both).

"Abnormal" ... this implies that there is always a mitigating circumstance occurring in the brain of the person responsible for leaving the child to die in the hot car.

Mitigating circumstance might include stroke, drug addiction, depression, general malaise - whatever.

 

Although the numbers are tragic, they represent an almost immeasurable percentage of the general population ... once again demonstrating that such occurrences are anything but "normal", and indeed are highly abnormal.

 

Abnormal behaviour is, by its very nature, not behaviour exhibited by rational, fully functioning human beings.

 

As for people who may know more than you or I, I would counter that a newspaper article (regardless of who wrote it) isn't anything even close to a peer reviewed, and cited document.

It's written to sell newspapers, no more, no less.

I tend not to give authors of newspaper articles any more credit than simply having penned an article in a skillful enough manner that I bothered to stop and read it.

[Rob Randall]

Two float planes collided in mid air today. Nobody is rushing to excuse the incident as normal. Why are we rushing to excuse leaving a child in a car for a third of a day as normal?

There’s normal, and then there’s abnormal. But one situation can’t be both.

 

Leaving a child in a car is definitely not normal. Although a statistician might say that on average approximately 30 children die each year in a hot car, therefore less than 10 or more than 50 dying would bed statistically abnormal. It's terrible to think that we can anticipate a number of deaths but stats are cold and brutal, ask a life insurance agent.

 

As for the plane crash, that is abnormal as well. They crashed even though they had trained, experienced pilots and the latest safety technology. How is it possible? They may not be negligent pilots. The technology may have worked fine. But somehow the holes on the Swiss cheese  lined up today for them. Tragic.

[LJ]

Forgetting about your kid for 8 hours?!

I've tried to forget about them totally a few times but alas.......jk

[Rob Randall]

As for people who may know more than you or I, I would counter that a newspaper article (regardless of who wrote it) isn't anything even close to a peer reviewed, and cited document.

It's written to sell newspapers, no more, no less.

I tend not to give authors of newspaper articles any more credit than simply having penned an article in a skillful enough manner that I bothered to stop and read it.

 

It is not just another news article. It has become famous in its own right as a piece of journalism. It won the Pulitzer Prize for feature writing. The author did 500 hours of interviews.

 

Don't just skim it and read the last paragraph. Read the entire thing. It will take a while. 

Edited by Rob Randall, 13 May 2019 - 09:05 PM.

[Cassidy]

As for the plane crash, that is abnormal as well. They crashed even though they had trained, experienced pilots and the latest safety technology. How is it possible? They may not be negligent pilots. The technology may have worked fine. But somehow the holes on the Swiss cheese  lined up today for them. Tragic.

 

80% of all plane crashes are due to pilot error.

Safely flying a plane is one of the most mentally demanding undertakings in the world.

Your brain can never shut down when you're a pilot ("yes", I'm a pilot) in that you always have to be aware of how you would respond if any of a hundred different scenarios caused your plane to lose power, or to otherwise become non-functional at 15,000 feet.

On top of this, you have to have a deep understanding of your planes mechanical and computer systems, so you can properly interpret and respond to any anomalies that may present themselves to you.

You also must know how to navigate over great distance, often at night or in inclement weather flying IFR with no visible reference points ... no ground visible.

You must also be completely knowledgable of the rigid procedures both on the ground, and it the air when taxing or flying among sometimes dozens of other airplanes.

With literally hundreds of potential errors to be made, any one of which could kill you and your passengers, it's no surprise that 80% of all aircraft accidents are due to pilot error.

 

 

.....when you take your child to the grocery store on a 30 degree day, all you have to do is remember not to leave them in the car or they'll die.

[Victoria Watcher]

ya it’s not that simple as your last paragraph.

I already said that hundreds of millions of kid transports happen without incident each year.

the super rare tragic incidents as outlined in that article are understandable if you know anything about statistics.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 May 2019 - 07:36 PM.

[Rob Randall]

.....when you take your child to the grocery store on a 30 degree day, all you have to do is remember not to leave them in the car or they'll die.

 

That's not what's happening. The article covers that in great deal.

[Victoria Watcher]

also kids die in cars about 50x more often due to poor or not used proper car seats.

nobody charges those parents with manslaughter.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 13 May 2019 - 07:42 PM.

[Rob Randall]

Your brain can never shut down when you're a pilot ("yes", I'm a pilot) in that you always have to be aware of how you would respond if any of a hundred different scenarios caused your plane to lose power, or to otherwise become non-functional at 15,000 feet.

 

As I've said before, my dad was a Naval Reserve pilot, a YVR controller supervisor and NavCanada accident investigator. Other kids played hockey with their dads. My dad told me why planes crash.

 

Why does the Swiss Cheese model work for aircraft operators but not automobile operators?

Edited by Rob Randall, 13 May 2019 - 07:43 PM.

[Cassidy]

ya it’s not that simple as your last paragraph.

It is actually ... it's fundamentally just that simple.

 

But we'll have to agree to disagree, as I'm most definitely not changing my thinking on this, nor am I inclined to see any advantage to continue seeking to have you change yours.

[Rob Randall]

You refuse to read the article?

[Cassidy]

Why does the Swiss Cheese model work for aircraft operators but not automobile operators?

I don't believe that remembering to take your kid out of a hot car has anything to do with being an "automobile operator"?

You also wouldn't leave your kid sweltering in your metal backyard tool shed on that same 30 degree day.

This is kind of global in terms of not putting or not leaving your toddler in places (or situations) where they could die.

[Cassidy]

You refuse to read the article?

I read it.

Edited by Cassidy, 13 May 2019 - 08:01 PM.