794 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

Yeah, it's surprising how fast this seems to be going considering the complexity. 

 

I mean, the design guidelines were only released last month. Has anyone even had time to digest them? Were the plans already drawn up before the guidelines were written?

 

Of course.  Government has unlimited budget.  Few private outfits are moving into brand new digs.

 

Unlimited for office workers of course. I was at that amalgamation event at SJ Willis school so I got to see the inside of the old building for the first time. In fact, I've visited a couple of schools recently and was struck by how dreary and uninspiring they are. No wonder kids dread school. I know it's silly to think about but consider how awe-inspiring it would be if a school looked like the inside of the Atrium building.

[Baro]

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but what are the plans regarding the 3 or so heritage designated houses on the block?

[jonny]

Of course.  Government has unlimited budget.  Few private outfits are moving into brand new digs.

 

Well, we know that's not quite true.

 

Some private outfits moved into the Atrium (Scotia, Schibli Stedman, Regus). Andrew Sheret just built their own brand new building. Harbour Landing is all businesses, IIRC. Western Union and Shaw did/are moving into brand new spaces at Uptown. Money Mart is in a relatively new space at Selkirk.

 

The biggest tenants in this town are likely going to be government. There's no denying that.

[Nparker]

...The biggest tenants in this town are likely going to be government. There's no denying that.

And without government as tenants most of these large office developments wouldn't likely happen at all.

[Mike K.]

Would it be wrong to assume 60% of Atrium is some form of government or quasi government?

[MarkoJ]

Notice of Public Hearing -> http://www.victoria....457 mailout.pdf

[VicHockeyFan]

Would it be wrong to assume 60% of Atrium is some form of government or quasi government?

 

More like 80%.

 

BCF

Border Services

Land Titles

 

The only private offices I know of is Regus and an accountant.

[AllseeingEye]

More like 80%.

 

BCF

Border Services

Land Titles

 

The only private offices I know of is Regus and an accountant.

Sort of, kind of but not really...LTSA is one of those hybrid orgs spun out of core government several years ago.

 

You have core ministries, Crown Corps and then the LTSA's of the world, technically referred to as the Broader Public Sector. Sounds very government-like and in fact they have a 60 year operating agreement with the BCG, however from a revenue standpoint they are completely self sustaining and receive no funding/support from government whatsoever. When I was there LTSA was in the $25-27 million p/a range with regard to realized revenues, however as they are technically a "Not for Profit" body all of that money was re-invested back into the organization as part of a multi year Business Transformation initiative to upgrade and update their legacy back end land survey and land title systems and business workflows, some of which were 30+ years old.

[rjag]

More like 80%.

 

BCF

Border Services

Land Titles

 

The only private offices I know of is Regus and an accountant.

Scotia private client services is on the same floor as CBSA and occupies the corner at Yates and Blanshard

[Mike K.]

Sort of, kind of but not really...LTSA is one of those hybrid orgs spun out of core government several years ago.

 

You have core ministries, Crown Corps and then the LTSA's of the world, technically referred to as the Broader Public Sector. Sounds very government-like and in fact they have a 60 year operating agreement with the BCG, however from a revenue standpoint they are completely self sustaining and receive no funding/support from government whatsoever. When I was there LTSA was in the $25-27 million p/a range with regard to realized revenues, however as they are technically a "Not for Profit" body all of that money was re-invested back into the organization as part of a multi year Business Transformation initiative to upgrade and update their legacy back end land survey and land title systems and business workflows, some of which were 30+ years old.

 

Am I correct in thinking that these organizations have no free market competition, therefore they are guaranteed to be self-sustaining in perpetuity as they are the only player in town and get to set whatever fees they want in order to maintain the budgets they wish to operate with?

[AllseeingEye]

Am I correct in thinking that these organizations have no free market competition, therefore they are guaranteed to be self-sustaining in perpetuity as they are the only player in town and get to set whatever fees they want in order to maintain the budgets they wish to operate with?

The BC LT system - the so-called Torrens System - has long been recognized as one of, if not "the", pre-eminent land title systems in the world, period. This is primarily due to the inherent checks and balances to ensure good and sound title is in fact registered - not the case in many jurisdictions around the world where "title" is often secured at the point of a gun or as part of a traditional marriage dowry; IOW formal boundaries are often extremely nebulous, ill - or not at all - defined and with little or no ability to be held up in a court of law in the event of a dispute.

 

Actual land title is protected in BC under the terms of the Land Title Act and de facto and de jure ownership - "title" - is documented via registration through the LTSA. Among its other responsibilities LTSA manages the land title system in a manner that protects and maintains the security of land ownership records and documents. Once land is registered, the Authority issues a Certificate of Title that represents that the named owner has ownership rights to the land. Only a person registered as Owner has the right to transfer or otherwise deal with his or her land title.

 

Scotland, New Zealand, Japan and other nations routinely sent delegations over to observe and review our system which is in fact a major contributor not only to the BC economy but also figures prominently in statute law - which is one reason the Director of Land Titles has always been and must be a lawyer. The org cannot however arbitrarily set title search and other fees: the BOD have to both seek and be granted stakeholder (the Legal, Surveyor, First Nations communities to name but a few) and BCG approval before any LTSA fees can be increased.

[Mike K.]

Thanks for the explanation.

But when we're talking about free market absorption of commercial space the LTSA doesn't quite fit that bill, neither do organizations like BC Ferries.

[AllseeingEye]

Thanks for the explanation.

But when we're talking about free market absorption of commercial space the LTSA doesn't quite fit that bill, neither do organizations like BC Ferries.

Can't speak to BCF other than to say the executive wing and CEO's office are all very nice, heh.

 

One of the main drivers for LTSA eventually relocating to the Atrium was the custom-built vault for the storage of priceless and historically-sensitive land & title documents; the "vault" occupies about 30% of the entire floor plate. Up to that point those documents were scattered over multiple locations here and Vancouver and in the field offices (Kamloops primarily and I believe also Nelson) in facilities not at all designed for the retention, storage and preservation of those documents. They also consolidated two office locations in Victoria to one (Atrium); that all said I do know the monthly lease for that entire floor was not for the faint of heart....

[Mike K.]

Yeah I bet. I don't think I even want to see it!

[VicHockeyFan]

Can't speak to BCF other than to say the executive wing and CEO's office are all very nice, heh.

 

One of the main drivers for LTSA eventually relocating to the Atrium was the custom-built vault for the storage of priceless and historically-sensitive land & title documents; the "vault" occupies about 30% of the entire floor plate. Up to that point those documents were scattered over multiple locations here and Vancouver and in the field offices (Kamloops primarily and I believe also Nelson) in facilities not at all designed for the retention, storage and preservation of those documents. They also consolidated two office locations in Victoria to one (Atrium); that all said I do know the monthly lease for that entire floor was not for the faint of heart....

 

Ya, but it's government, even if it operates in a "cost-recovery" mode.  They can set whatever fees they want.   That's just like taxes.

[Coreyburger]

Ya, but it's government, even if it operates in a "cost-recovery" mode.  They can set whatever fees they want.   That's just like taxes.

 

Depends on the legislation that controls them. Local governments aren't allowed to charge more than cost recovery for most permits (hence why you get DCCs and other similar contribution agreements).

[VicHockeyFan]

Depends on the legislation that controls them. Local governments aren't allowed to charge more than cost recovery for most permits (hence why you get DCCs and other similar contribution agreements).

But they set the "cost". And there's not an alternate service provider to go to when lookimg for a lower price. So it's whatever they want to charge.

[AllseeingEye]

Ya, but it's government, even if it operates in a "cost-recovery" mode.  They can set whatever fees they want.   That's just like taxes.

No actually they can't. They can request, they can ask all they like and they can and do certainly specify by how much they want to increase the fees. And they can just as easily be turned down, which happened at least once during my tenure. LTSA has zero power to arbitrarily do anything in terms of a fee increase. And as of 2008 there has been an entirely wholly owned and controlled LTSA subsidiary in downtown Vancouver that has absolutely no connection to government or the BCGEU, and whose employees are non-union and who can be and are hired and fired as routinely as they are in any fully "private" corporation. Do a basic search on LandSure Systems.....

[VicHockeyFan]

So I can set up an alternate land title system for theorist of the province?

[VicHockeyFan]

Edit: They are still approved and granted access by the government. That's not a private sector system.

LandSure Systems Ltd. is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Land Title and Survey Authority of BC (LTSA), a publicly accountable, statutory corporation which operates and administers BC’s land title and survey systems. LandSure provides communications, project management, and information systems consulting services to the LTSA and is located in downtown Vancouver near the Burrard Skytrain station.