2164 replies to this topic

[Rob Randall]

General question - I also drive a gas powered vehicle, so I'm not asking from a "holier than thou" perspective. 

 

What is the macro impact of choosing to use gas over hydro to power a vehicle? Eg increased health care costs due to poor air quality etc?

 

That's a good question. I don't worry about local air quality. Victorians enjoying year-round ocean breezes don't suffer air pollution like the residents of Bangkok or Mexico City.  So not a big deal to me.

 

Western Canada hardly gets any gas from totalitarian regimes, most of it is domestic or from the US/EU. So I don't fret that some of the money from that $1.63 litre of gas I bought ends up in the Swiss bank account of some murderous dictator. I don't know, maybe I should worry more.

 

But we do use a lot of dirty oilsands gasoline from the prairie provinces and that's not great. 

[Jackerbie]

Even at premium gas prices, my gas expense is a lot less than the monthly payment on an electric car. In the absence of a reasonable alternative, all this does is drive up the burden on the working class.

This is why we need reasonable alternatives (and I'm not talking electric vehicles). Car-dependent communities are a burden on the working class.

[Mike K.]

Car dependent communities are a product of poor resource distribution, transit board decisions and bias, and local government oversight or disregard. They are not the fault of the people who live in those communities.

 

Furthermore, every motorist pays for transit via 5.5 cents per litre, and every homeowner (and by extension every renter) pays for transit via annual property taxes, and in Victoria Sunday parking fees were directed at transit passes for youth. Maybe the real story is that car-dependent communities subsidize transit-oriented communities.

[sebberry]

This is why we need reasonable alternatives (and I'm not talking electric vehicles). Car-dependent communities are a burden on the working class.

 

I live in a pretty central location near Oak Bay Junction.  There's many bus stops within 50 meters of my door, and yet taking transit to and from work would be about 40 minutes with a transfer at the super appealing Pandora/Quadra intersection.

 

My drive is 12 minutes. Air conditioned in the summer, warm in the winter.  Always dry.

[Jackerbie]

Car dependent communities are a product of poor resource distribution, transit board decisions and bias, and local government oversight or disregard. They are not the fault of the people who live in those communities.

 

Never said it was their fault, but when the only viable option for a significant chunk of the population is a home far from their workplace, that person is now at the complete mercy of their commute. Vehicle payments, maintenance, insurance, gas... all those things basically become an invisible part of the mortgage (in Vancouver, it's been estimated that Valley residents bear an additional $230,000 in commute-related expenses over the term of a 25-year mortgage).

 

What I am saying is that if someone's opposition to hikes in gas taxes is based on the financial impacts to the working class, then maybe they should also be advocating for housing options that enable freedom from the significant costs of vehicle ownership.

[Rob Randall]

And Mike says we should open up the urban containment boundary and throw up car-dependent cul-de-sacs from Shawnigan to Port Renfrew.

[JohnsonStBridge]

Furthermore, every motorist pays for transit via 5.5 cents per litre, and every homeowner (and by extension every renter) pays for transit via annual property taxes, and in Victoria Sunday parking fees were directed at transit passes for youth. Maybe the real story is that car-dependent communities subsidize transit-oriented communities.

 

And transit users pay property taxes that fund road maintenance to the benefit of vehicle users. Vehicle dependent communities bear greater infrastructure costs to various governments. Fossil fuel production receives public funding. At the end of the day there is significant taxpayer subsidies to both car and transit users. Only listing the costs on one side of the coin may fit what you want it to say but it is not the real and complete picture.

[Mike K.]

And Mike says we should open up the urban containment boundary and throw up car-dependent cul-de-sacs from Shawnigan to Port Renfrew.

And I also say concentrating employment in a singular area is the root cause of our mobility problems.

Why are schools dispersed all throughout the region? Why are fire departments dispersed? Police stations, grocery stores, liquor stores and medical clinics?

Concentrating employment in one primary location and limiting even small secondary nodes puts a tremendous amount of pressure on our infrastructure and our workforce.

I mean you live where 50-years-ago farmers raised cattle. Why is Gordon Head acceptable suburban sprawl with excellent public transit, but neighbourhoods in Langford are not? The distances are equal.

[Victoria Watcher]

do you want to disperse CFB? there is no boat ramp in Saanich for the submarine.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 22 June 2021 - 12:00 PM.

[Mike K.]

It already is dispersed a bit. CFB has operations at Albert Head and Rocky Point in Metchosin, and in View Royal, and 443 Squadron operates out of Victoria International Airport. There was also the military college at Royal Roads some time ago.

[sebberry]

Many stations in the area are up to 172.9 c/l tonight.  

 

FML.

[Belleprincess]

I’m moving closer to town and actually considering getting rid of my car. Between gas, insurance, maintenance and parking - I pay about $600 per month. That used to be what I paid in rent

[Ismo07]

I’m moving closer to town and actually considering getting rid of my car. Between gas, insurance, maintenance and parking - I pay about $600 per month. That used to be what I paid in rent

 

Find a place that has Modo available nearby....  I'm so close to losing my car too...

[Mike K.]

Find a place that has Modo available nearby....  I'm so close to losing my car too...

 

You've been saying that since 2016! 

[UDeMan]

gas prices are going up, but I don't see anyone stopping driving.

traffic is busy everywhere.    

[Nparker]

Gas prices are going up BECAUSE more people are driving. No better way to gouge the consumer.

[Mike K.]

They go up to lower demand, so that in peak demand periods people reduce consumption from where it would have been at lower prices.

[Sparky]

^ Could you explain that theory please? My brain collapsed when reading that.

[Mike K.]

They know demand rises during the summer, but capacity remains static, while supply chains are strained, and especially now when the industry has lost so many truckers. They can’t respond fast enough to supply every gas station as people start travelling for leisure (ie, a full tank gets used with every day of travel, compared to a regular fill-up cycle every week or every two), so they raise prices, knowing for every 1% increase in price there is a % decrease in demand.

[Victoria Watcher]

^ Could you explain that theory please? My brain collapsed when reading that.

 

by charging a higher rate they can get more money per litre, all without having to change the supply much.   they get more profit.  and the higher price also reduces demand slightly so it balances supply.  that's how the market works.