11576 replies to this topic

[LJ]

Massive societal subsidies will do that.

Here’s what you get when you drive an EV in Norway:

- No purchase/import taxes (1990-)
- Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-)
- No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021.
- No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017).
- Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-)
- Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019)
- Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
- Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maximum 50% of the full price (2018-)
- Access to bus lanes (2005-).
- New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016)
- 50 % reduced company car tax (2000-2018).
- Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-)
- Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015)
- Fiscal compensation for the scrapping of fossil vans when converting to a zero-emission van (2018)

Wait till they get everyone converted to EV's, then watch the taxes and charges start piling on.

[Matt R.]

So does Norway. They export 1.3 million oil barrels a day, so that they can pay for all of their fancy subsidies.

Norway’s oil exports are 2.5x Canada’s, per-capita. Not very green for such green country. They also export a lot of natural gas (#2 in Europe after Russia).

What’s that Norge sovereign wealth fund at these days. Still sitting well over a trillion?

Matt.

[rjag]

and instead we provide massive subsidies to the oil and gas industry.

Aren’t those ‘subsidies’ the same as any resource extraction business? Or like any large manufacturing business ie Bombardier etc. Can you link a source that shows what it is that they receive that’s unique to them and also show the ROI in Royalties & tax revenues? And how it’s detrimental to our economy?

The data I see is that last year this sector was the largest contributor to our GDP at $105billion and about $10billion in taxes to government

https://www.capp.ca/...d 2017 to 2019.

Edited by rjag, 11 October 2021 - 11:28 PM.

[Victoria Watcher]

UK:

 

 

 

 

UK: Plug-In Car Sales Surge To New Record In September 2021

The Tesla Model 3 was the most registered car during the month, regardless of powertrain.

 

 

https://insideevs.co...-september2021/

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 03:56 AM.

[Mike K.]

Battery manufacturer LG will pay GM $1.9B to cover the cost of recalling 143,000 fireBolts.

[sebberry]

Gasoline is an excellent portable source of energy for things like cars.  Batteries belong in flashlights and laptops. 

I find it a little odd that instead of focusing on better land-based power generation methods (more nuclear, specifically thorium) plants, we're targeting the one thing fossil fuels is actually well suited for due to its portability.

 

288 battery cells in a Chevy Bolt, 2,976 in a Tesla Model 3.  Only takes one of those to overheat and set the rest on fire.

[Moderation]

What is your point of comparison?  Only takes one small spark to set an ice car, gas station or leaky pipeline on fire, but it rarely happens but it does happen.

Ice cars catch fire. Pipelines spill oil etc. etc. Never mind the carbon emissions. 

 

Small nuclear plants are being worked on. Electric transport is one way the average person and small company can have an immediate impact on their carbon footprint and increase every ones awareness of the need for all to reduce their carbon footprint.

[Victoria Watcher]

Gasoline is an excellent portable source of energy for things like cars.  

 

oh it is, it's quite convenient for you.

 

but your convenience does not trump the health of others.  the science is indeed settled on tens of thousands of deaths from air pollution every year.  

 

so now that we have electric cars that are nearly as convenient as ICE, it's time to slowly switch over.

[Mike K.]

There's a lot more out-of-sight impact from EVs, as their energy is created elsewhere and pollutes some place else, and their rare component mining impacts populations mostly in the Third World.

[Victoria Watcher]

who cares about the third world? did you get your second shot, or wait for Africa to get their first?

an electric car powered by natural gas powered electricity is still cleaner and more efficient than ICE.

[Mike K.]

Why spend so much money on the middleman (the battery) if natgas is so efficient?

[Victoria Watcher]

Why spend so much money on the middleman (the battery) if natgas is so efficient?

The excess heat can be captured and reused at the electricity plant efficiently. That’s much more difficult onboard the car. Reverse economy of scale.

That’s why ICE are so inefficient, so much energy just goes to heat rather than motive power. Could it be recaptured and used for motive power on the car? Yes, but you’d need to have the steam engine in your trunk. Not very efficient and less space, more maintenance and complexity.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 04:44 PM.

[Mike K.]

In the winter, that heat gets diverted into the passenger cabin, and it keeps windows clear of fog.

 

Electric cars lose energy as they sit immobile in your driveway. ICE cars do not lose energy when sitting immobile.

[Victoria Watcher]

An electric car might lose its charge in 3 months. That’s $15 in power. A tiny blip. Not significant.

Your ICE burns $15 in oil in that time and needs new spark plugs annually. That’ll cost you and the planet more.

Regenerative braking alone makes your electric car brakes $200/year less expensive to operate.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 04:58 PM.

[Mike K.]

Tiny blips multiplied by millions of tiny blips is a lot. Imagine, not only does your EV require energy to move, it requires energy to stay still.

[Victoria Watcher]

It requires $5 month. That’s not significant. As outlined above.

Most licenced cars do not sit.

All the seals and gaskets in your ICE deteriorate while sitting for a more consequential cost - financially and environmentally - than that every month.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 05:11 PM.

[Mike K.]

$5/month is a lot of electricity. Now multiply that by a million cars.

 

And you better make sure you're not gone on vacation for too long, or you'll come back to a dead car. And damaged batteries.

[Victoria Watcher]

I’m not sure you get it.

The average ICE costs $500 to $700 a year to maintain. An electric car is half that. Multiply that by the worldwide car fleet (1.5 billion).

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 05:47 PM.

[Mike K.]

Oh but hold on, we’re talking about emissions here, that are harmful, and not maintenance costs. Your EV is constantly needing to draw power, and not many places have the advantage of BC’s clean hydro so the pollution is some place else.

But remember, once the battery pack needs replacement, every cost advantage of the EV disappears and now the ICE has an advantage, dollar for dollar.

[Victoria Watcher]

The electric engine lasts 2-5 times (miles) longer than the ICE. And it’s cheaper to replace.

And the battery pack has gone down in cost by 90% in just the last 12 years.

Today’s batteries will last 1 million miles.

Edited by Victoria Watcher, 12 October 2021 - 05:52 PM.