427 replies to this topic

[VicHockeyFan]

None of these cited locations are long-term, supportive housing -- which provides a stable environment for both residents and tenants. They are all drop-in and emergency, shelter services which help people who are homeless -- not housed -- and therefore living much more unstable, unpredictable lives. It's like comparing apples with potatoes.

 

Alan, the whole area round Queens Manor is a zoo.  This will be zoo x 3.

[Alan Rycroft]

Alan, the whole area round Queens Manor is a zoo.  This will be zoo x 3.

Why don't you come take a tour of our Pandora site, where 112 people live in supportive housing with on-site youth and children services that have been operating 20 years. Call me: 250-414-4781 to arrange.

 

Comparing apples with potatoes just doesn't get us anywhere. Come see the real thing and then you can make meaningful comparisons.

[Baro]

I used to cut through the 700 Pandora site a lot. it's certainly not something I'd choose for my neighbourhood, but if that's as bad as we're getting on Vancouver St. I'd be much less opposed.

 

I just don't want junkies spilled out onto the street taking up all the space from the shelter to the park,  I don't want the screaming matches or violence I've seen at Quadra and Pandora.  I don't want drug dealers and the various violent parasites shelters often attract.  I don't want needles in my stairwell or people using my garage as a toilet.  I want this building to create no more disturbance than any other apartment building in the area.  

 

If the shelter can guarantee these general conditions along with a mechanism for its relocation if it can't, fine.  Still, from the reading I've been doing on the subject I'm still not sold on this model of shelter.

 

The cool aid society is trying to do good, but it's asking an entire neighbourhood of people to risk it's destruction on some vague assurances.  I've known lives destroyed by shelters like these, people made homeless after a poorly managed shelter destroyed their business, people forced to move after no longer feeling safe in their own homes.  These facilities can carry very real risks to the areas they're built.  This isn't some NIMBY fussyness about "but our property values", it's an existential fear for the neighbourhood its self.  These fears need to be much better addressed.

[Alan Rycroft]

I used to cut through the 700 Pandora site a lot. it's certainly not something I'd choose for my neighbourhood, but if that's as bad as we're getting on Vancouver St. I'd be much less opposed.

 

I just don't want junkies spilled out onto the street taking up all the space from the shelter to the park,  I don't want the screaming matches or violence I've seen at Quadra and Pandora.  I don't want drug dealers and the various violent parasites shelters often attract.  I don't want needles in my stairwell or people using my garage as a toilet.  I want this building to create no more disturbance than any other apartment building in the area.  

 

If the shelter can guarantee these general conditions along with a mechanism for its relocation if it can't, fine.  Still, from the reading I've been doing on the subject I'm still not sold on this model of shelter.

 

The cool aid society is trying to do good, but it's asking an entire neighbourhood of people to risk it's destruction on some vague assurances.  I've known lives destroyed by shelters like these, people made homeless after a poorly managed shelter destroyed their business, people forced to move after no longer feeling safe in their own homes.  These facilities can carry very real risks to the areas they're built.  This isn't some NIMBY fussyness about "but our property values", it's an existential fear for the neighbourhood its self.  These fears need to be much better addressed.

You're first paragraph is what is being proposed. Housing, not a shelter (Rock Bay Landing) or drop-in service (Our Place) which is what people are fearing. Come see for yourselves -- the 700 block of Pandora, where 112 of our residents already live.

[VicHockeyFan]

You're first paragraph is what is being proposed. Housing, not a shelter (Rock Bay Landing) or drop-in service (Our Place) which is what people are fearing. Come see for yourselves -- the 700 block of Pandora, where 112 of our residents already live.

 

The 700 blocks of Johnson (the Cool Aid Community Health Centre is at 713) and Pandora and not exactly paradise.  If not for the heavy street traffic by working and shopping folks, the street population would stand out more.  I know about the frustration that the fitness centre feels on Johnson, and my old office is in Odeon Alley, and almost every morning, signs of drug use are left behind.  And I'd say barely a day goes by that cleaning and maintenance people there, that work from 7am to 10pm, do not have to ask people to move off the private property.

 

I mean heck, people will not use that bus stop in 700 Johnson because many of the the Cool Aid clients can't even have the courtesy to dismount from their bikes around the bus stop.  So they are constantly being shuffled around by a guy or two doing donuts on the sidewalk.

[Alan Rycroft]

The 700 blocks of Johnson (the Cool Aid Community Health Centre is at 713) and Pandora and not exactly paradise.  If not for the heavy street traffic by working and shopping folks, the street population would stand out more.  I know about the frustration that the fitness centre feels on Johnson, and my old office is in Odeon Alley, and almost every morning, signs of drug use are left behind.  And I'd say barely a day goes by that cleaning and maintenance people there, that work from 7am to 10pm, do not have to ask people to move off the private property.

 

I mean heck, people will not use that bus stop in 700 Johnson because many of the the Cool Aid clients can't even have the courtesy to dismount from their bikes around the bus stop.  So they are contantly begin shovled around by a guy or two doing donuts on the sidewalk.

Again -- the Community Health Centre is a drop-in service with over 4,000 patients, plus clients of AIDS Vancouver Island. This is the exact opposite of supportive housing, where there will be NO drop-in services and a stable, client base of residents.

 

There is a huge difference! Come on a tour and see for yourself what is actually being proposed -- Alan Rycroft, 250-414-4781 or arycroft@CoolAid.org.

[VicHockeyFan]

OK, comment on Queens Manor.

 

There is not a single business owner around there that does not have a long list of incidents, property damage, drug materials (that Cool Aid supplies) and people taking bathroom breaks on their property.  Luckily, it has no nearby residential, except the Kimpton Hotel.  It does have a very lively street community all around it, at all hours of the day.

 

And yes, Alan, we'll consider a tour.

[Rob Randall]

For what it's worth I've attended several early morning meetings at Pandora Place and it's always been pretty mellow around there; not much in terms of troublemakers loitering about.

[VicHockeyFan]

For what it's worth I've attended several early morning meetings at Pandora Place and it's always been pretty mellow around there; not much in terms of troublemakers loitering about.

 

What is early morning?  8am?  I mean, that's not quite prime-time for street issues.  I mean, the police have barely woken most up by that time.  

[shoeflack]

Geez, this thread is getting a bit toxic. If there's one thing I've learned about Vibrant Victoria, it's that the users who will shout NIMBY at anyone who dares oppose a commercial or residential development are the exact same users who will cry foul anytime a solution regarding cycling or homelessness is proposed. The blatant hypocrisy on display is just so frustrating at times and really flies in the face of what this forum strives to be about...although when those users are the ones who are most heavily active on here, I guess you could say you know where the priorities of VV lie.

 

As a resident in the 800-block of Johnson and a dog owner who walks the Pandora/Quadra corner day and night, the 800-block of Pandora outside the church where everyone congregates on the steps, the 900-block of Johnson where crowds await their cheques or their buddies at Our Place...I'll say this much. It may LOOK like an absolute unsafe gross place, but I've never once felt in danger. I'd rather walk those stretches at 2:00 am than deeper downtown outside the bars at 2:00 am.

 

Do I have to be aware of letting the dogs piss on a bush or patch of grass that may have a bunch of needles? Yes, so I use my eyes to look for that stuff. The same way I look out for dog crap in a nice park left behind by a pretentious d-bag who makes 100k a year, or the litter on the ground left by some casual shopper downtown, or a piece of Rebar askew at a construction site, or a biker blowing through a stop sign.

 

Seriously. Celebrating 10 years of community discussion? Sure, one particular type of community perhaps. This project on Vancouver Street is good for the community as a whole. Nobody wants something like this next door, but spreading things like this throughout the community is a far greater strategy than just tossing them all in one area. Are Pandora/Johnson and Rock Bay supposed to be the defacto homeless strips of town? How appealing does that make those areas going forward?

[aastra]

 

Nobody wants something like this next door, but spreading things like this throughout the community is a far greater strategy than just tossing them all in one area.

 

Seriously though, we're actually talking about a small section of the city of Victoria (which itself is supposed to be very small, if we remember our Victoria training). Including everything from Rock Bay to Vancouver street we're talking what, 1.x square kilometers? About eight blocks west->east and maybe sixteen blocks north->south? If you think in terms of neighbourhoods then maybe two or three adjacent neighbourhoods at most?

 

There's no spreading happening here. Whether or not you think the operations themselves are working very well or whether or not you think the operations themselves are not working at all, they're all being concentrated in one area. I still haven't heard anyone even attempt to offer any sort of explanation for why such a massive burden should fall upon a small area of Victoria city. And what's the ultimate goal here? Do we just keep on doing this forever? Do we really believe that downtown Victoria has an infinite capacity to absord these issues and services?

[VicHockeyFan]

Geez, this thread is getting a bit toxic. If there's one thing I've learned about Vibrant Victoria, it's that the users who will shout NIMBY at anyone who dares oppose a commercial or residential development are the exact same users who will cry foul anytime a solution regarding cycling or homelessness is proposed. The blatant hypocrisy on display is just so frustrating at times and really flies in the face of what this forum strives to be about...although when those users are the ones who are most heavily active on here, I guess you could say you know where the priorities of VV lie.

 

It's true that we are urban enthusiasts, most of us, and we like dense development.  I'm not so sure it's all that hypocritical that we support projects that employ people in the private sector, and add to the tax base  - that's absolutely needed to support social services and wages in the public sector.

[jonny]

Seriously. Celebrating 10 years of community discussion? Sure, one particular type of community perhaps. This project on Vancouver Street is good for the community as a whole. Nobody wants something like this next door, but spreading things like this throughout the community is a far greater strategy than just tossing them all in one area. Are Pandora/Johnson and Rock Bay supposed to be the defacto homeless strips of town? How appealing does that make those areas going forward?

 

These things are all being tossed into one area.

 

Why doesn't Cool Aid put one of these in Central Saanich?

 

We already have enough problems in and around downtown resulting from "at risk individuals". Maybe we should house the at risk individuals further away from the drugs and lifestyle?

[VicPushedOver]

You're first paragraph is what is being proposed. Housing, not a shelter (Rock Bay Landing) or drop-in service (Our Place) which is what people are fearing. Come see for yourselves -- the 700 block of Pandora, where 112 of our residents already live.

You keep mentioning Pandora street. I really don't think you get it, people in the neighborhood do not want Vancouver Street to be like Pandora Street. Most people i know, avoid Pandora if they can. Especially at night.

[nagel]

You keep mentioning Pandora street. I really don't think you get it, people in the neighborhood do not want Vancouver Street to be like Pandora Street. Most people i know, avoid Pandora if they can. Especially at night.

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I believe he's highlighting the block between Douglas and Blanshard (700 block) and you may be thinking of the 900 block which is the Quadra/Vancouver one.

[Alan Rycroft]

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I believe he's highlighting the block between Douglas and Blanshard (700 block) and you may be thinking of the 900 block which is the Quadra/Vancouver one.

 

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I believe he's highlighting the block between Douglas and Blanshard (700 block) and you may be thinking of the 900 block which is the Quadra/Vancouver one.

Exactly right. World's apart which show clearly the difference between drop-in services (900 block) and residential services (700 block). Encourage you to take a stroll to see for yourself what a difference housing makes.

[Mike K.]

As a resident in the 800-block of Johnson and a dog owner who walks the Pandora/Quadra corner day and night, the 800-block of Pandora outside the church where everyone congregates on the steps, the 900-block of Johnson where crowds await their cheques or their buddies at Our Place...I'll say this much. It may LOOK like an absolute unsafe gross place, but I've never once felt in danger. I'd rather walk those stretches at 2:00 am than deeper downtown outside the bars at 2:00 am.

...

Seriously. Celebrating 10 years of community discussion? Sure, one particular type of community perhaps. This project on Vancouver Street is good for the community as a whole. Nobody wants something like this next door, but spreading things like this throughout the community is a far greater strategy than just tossing them all in one area. Are Pandora/Johnson and Rock Bay supposed to be the defacto homeless strips of town? How appealing does that make those areas going forward?

 

I'm not sure I follow.

 

In one paragraph to speak to the benefits of the activities in the 800-blocks of Pandora and Johnson and claim you actually feel safer there than you do in other parts of downtown, but in a following paragraph you're worried that your area of downtown may be viewed as the preferred location for these services?

 

I get the sense that you've found yourself in a position where the street issues you encounter are an unfortunate part of urban living on your block. And now that you've come to realize what this means for you you want to stop the proliferation in your immediate area and would prefer to push similar services onto someone else's doorstep. I can't say I blame you, and I'd probably feel the same way, but why beat around the bush? Just come out and say what you really think, that your area has had enough and you want to spread the burden.

[Alan Rycroft]

These things are all being tossed into one area.

 

Why doesn't Cool Aid put one of these in Central Saanich?

 

We already have enough problems in and around downtown resulting from "at risk individuals". Maybe we should house the at risk individuals further away from the drugs and lifestyle?

Cool Aid looked at multiple properties in other municipalities in our search for a large property with the kind of features we have successfully found in Mount Edwards. Unfortunately none of them worked out during our seven-year search. I'm sure developers can relate.

 

Cool Aid does operate a lot of properties outside downtown, as far away Langford and Saanich (we have 14 in total, with 1 in construction and we hope Mount Edwards in the future). Here's where to find a map to view our portfolio:

 

https://coolaid.org/...-aid-locations/

 

You will note that while many properties are in the downtown core, most are not.

 

-- Alan Rycroft

[VicHockeyFan]

Cool Aid looked at multiple properties in other municipalities in our search for a large property with the kind of features we have successfully found in Mount Edwards. Unfortunately none of them worked out during our seven-year search. I'm sure developers can relate.

 

 

 

 

Oak Bay Lodge and Mt. Tolmie Hospital are both becoming available.

[Mike K.]

Thanks for taking the time to write, Alan. You've got a long, hard road ahead of you here but it's great that you're taking the time to engage people on here.